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From Mark Womack <wom...@adobe.com>
Subject RE: [VOTE] Tag the CVS for 1.2.10 and revert the slf4j related changes on 1.2 branch
Date Wed, 04 May 2005 18:29:42 GMT
Your metaphors are bit extreme.  I personally don't have a cyanide tablet
sitting at my desk waiting for the next time we vote on something related to
an official release of log4j 1.2.X implementing slf4j.  I will evaluate
based on the current information, situation, etc.  My filters for criteria
have been clearly explained, I believe.  I don't believe I am the only
committer with this attitude.  I'm sorry if you do.

-Mark

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ceki Gülcü [mailto:blocked@qos.ch]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 11:20 AM
> To: Log4J Developers List
> Subject: RE: [VOTE] Tag the CVS for 1.2.10 and revert the slf4j related
> changes on 1.2 branch
> 
> 
> Mark, I never the questioned the legitimacy of the recall, have I? My
> point
> is that a veto is like an ICBM, once fired you can't take it back, at
> least
> most people can't.
> 
> 
> At 20:05 5/4/2005, Mark Womack wrote:
> >Again, the -1 votes were for the recall of the 1.2.10 release which was
> not
> >done according to the bylaws for which we are obligated to the ASF board.
> >It was not done against the concept of doing an implementation of slf4j
> in
> >log4j on the 1.2 code base.  I don't know how any of us can make that any
> >more plain.  If you think I have some hidden agenda, then you know my
> >subconscious mind better than I do.
> >
> >Yes, there are some questions of timing of an "official" slf4j
> >implementation in log4j being released, and those did contribute to the -
> 1
> >votes.  I think (this is my opinion, there is no binding vote) that once
> we
> >see something more concrete and stable from the slf4j side then we will
> all
> >be more comfortable doing the official release.  Until then, there is
> >nothing wrong with doing an official experimental release.  Maybe I am
> >optimistic, but that is the way I see it.
> >
> >-Mark
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ceki Gülcü [mailto:blocked@qos.ch]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 10:33 AM
> > > To: Log4J Developers List
> > > Subject: RE: [VOTE] Tag the CVS for 1.2.10 and revert the slf4j
> related
> > > changes on 1.2 branch
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I am less optimistic than you. In my experience, once cast, many
> > > committers albeit not all, would first drink lethal poison before
> > > reverting their -1 vote. Whatever the reasons given today, those who
> > > cast -1 votes will continue to do so under various pretexts, which may
> > > be justified, unjustified, honest, disguised or otherwise.  In short,
> > > it is practically impossible for a rejected proposal to get
> > > subsequently accepted. In any case, I won't be presenting a
> > > proposal. Now if a heroic soul wishes to try, I wish them all the luck
> > > in the world.
> > >
> > > At 19:03 5/4/2005, Mark Womack wrote:
> > > >Ceki,
> > > >
> > > >Are you saying that there is no longer any interest to support slf4j
> in
> > > >log4j?  I don't speak for you, but I know I am still interested in
> it.
> > > It
> > > >sounds like others are as well.  Depending on the timeframes for
> slf4j
> > > and
> > > >the (currently numbered) v1.3 version of log4j, releasing something
> on
> > > the
> > > >1.2.X code base can still make a lot of sense.  The recall of the
> 1.2.10
> > > >version has never been about WHETHER to do a slf4j version.  It has
> been
> > > >about WHEN to do it.  There are some questions on HOW, but those can
> be
> > > >hashed out.  Anyway, the repository will be set up for whatever is
> > > decided.
> > > >It is up to people to choose to do it.
> > > >
> > > >v1.2.10 was recalled, so removing the binaries is appropriate.  I'd
> > > prefer
> > > >that folks not be able to get their hands on it.  Again, if we want
> to
> > > >release an appropriately marked "experimental" version (I don't know
> what
> > > >phrase you want to use here), we can.  All it takes is a vote.
> > > >
> > > >-Mark
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Ceki Gülcü [mailto:blocked@qos.ch]
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 9:48 AM
> > > > > To: Log4J Developers List
> > > > > Subject: Re: [VOTE] Tag the CVS for 1.2.10 and revert the slf4j
> > > related
> > > > > changes on 1.2 branch
> > > > >
> > > > > At 16:48 5/4/2005, Jacob Kjome wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >I like Mark's proposal.  +1.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks Mark, Jake. I appreciate the significance of the gesture
> but
> > > > > probably no one will follow through with the idea, although I
> might be
> > > > > wrong. Curt has already removed the log4j-1.2.10 binary files from
> the
> > > > > server. I am not sure he asked or informed anyone but that's a
> > > different
> > > > > mater.
> > > > >
> > > > > >Jake
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Ceki Gülcü
> > > > >
> > > > >    The complete log4j manual: http://www.qos.ch/log4j/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> ---
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> > >
> > > --
> > > Ceki Gülcü
> > >
> > >    The complete log4j manual: http://www.qos.ch/log4j/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
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> 
> --
> Ceki Gülcü
> 
>    The complete log4j manual: http://www.qos.ch/log4j/
> 
> 
> 
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