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From Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com>
Subject Re: [jira] [Created] (LOG4J2-1375) Update SLF4J from 1.7.13 to 1.7.21
Date Sun, 24 Apr 2016 05:20:37 GMT
If we don’t do 3 then we run the risk of losing a few SLF4J events at startup. However, that
is the current situation. So given that, I am also in favor of option 2, at least until some
time passes and it is likely anyone using SLF4J is using a more current version.

Ralph

> On Apr 23, 2016, at 6:16 PM, Remko Popma <remko.popma@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I agree with Ralph that implementing the new SLF4J method and Log4j startup are separate
topics.
> 
> So let's focus on SLF4J. What are our options? These are the ones I see:
> 1. We compile our log4j-slf4j-impl and log4j-to-slf4j modules with 1.7.13 
> 2. We compile our log4j-slf4j-impl and log4j-to-slf4j modules with 1.7.21 but DON'T implement
the log(org.slf4j.event.LoggingEvent) method
> 3. We compile our log4j-slf4j-impl and log4j-to-slf4j modules with 1.7.21 and DO implement
the log(org.slf4j.event.LoggingEvent) method
> 
> If doing 3 means we break some applications I would favour 2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 6:33 AM, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com <mailto:ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>>
wrote:
> I would suggest others review the code in question, but here is what I see.
> 
> LoggerFactory initializes dynamically. The first caller binds to the implementation of
the LoggerFactory by calling StaticLoggerBinder.getSingleton(), but only if it is the first
caller. Other callers are given a substitute logger factory until the binding is complete.
Log4j’s implementation creates a Log4jLoggerFactory instance but performs no initialization
at this time, so the amount of time that SLF4J would be in this state should be very small.
Regardless, events could still be routed to the substitute logger. If we want to ensure that
these events are not discarded then we have to implement the new method.
> 
> Note that due to the way Log4j initializes we don’t have this kind of race going on
anywhere. Ceki seems to imply that the race is in the underlying logging framework, but it
is not. Or perhaps he is just assuming that all log events are coming through SLF4J, which
may or may not actually be the case.  The race is entirely within SLF4J’s initialization
logic. Anyone using just the Log4j API will not have this problem.
> 
> As I said previously, A Log4j LoggerContext always has a configuration, at least until
it is shut down, and logging an event requires a constructed LoggerContext. A LoggerContext
has a default configuration until the actual configuration file is processed and the full
configuration constructed. The default configuration logs errors to the console. So any log
events that actually make it to Log4j will have something done with them, but maybe not what
the user wants.  If we wanted to have any events that occur before configuration is completed
subject to that configuration the default configuration would have to capture them and then
republish the events when the configuration is stopped, which is similar in concept to what
SLF4J is doing. But we can’t rely on SLF4J’s substitute loggers for this as SLF4J may
not even be in the picture.
> 
> So as I see it, the discussion on whether to implement the support for the new SLF4J
method is completely separate from enhancing support of Log4j logging during startup.
> 
> Ralph
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2016, at 11:16 AM, Ceki Gulcu <ceki@qos.ch <mailto:ceki@qos.ch>>
wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> SLF4J will replay the events it captured during the initialization of the underlying
logging framework, log4j2 in this case, assuming log4j2 supports SLF4J replay via the Logger.log(o.s.event.LoggingEvent)
method.
>> 
>> What Raplh seems to suggest is to duplicate the SLF4J replay functionality within
log4j2. However, given that SLF4J captures events generated during initialization, log4j2
cannot see them unless it supports SLF4J replay. For logging frameworks without replay support,
i.e. those which lack the Logger.log(o.s.event.LoggingEvent) method, slf4j will simply drop
the events it captured. Note that log4j1, logback prior to 1.1.4, and slf4j-jul and slf4j-simple
prior to version 1.7.15 all lacked replay support but continue to work just fine under slf4j-api
1.7.15+.
>> 
>> Also note that if N is the version of slf4j-api and M is the slf4j-api version with
which a binding is compiled, then slf4j ensures binary compatibility for all N and M in the
1.6.x and the 1.7.x series. For example, the slf4j-api-1.6.0.jar/slf4j-simple-1.7.21.jar combination
will work just fine, same goes for the slf4j-simple-1.7.21.jar/slf4j-api-1.6.0.jar combination.
>> 
>> Compatibility is broken when the binding voluntarily supports event replay, as was
the case with logback versions 1.1.4+ which require SLF4J version 1.7.15+. The question is
whether log4j2 wants to support event replay at the cost of dropping compatibility with earlier
versions of slf4j-api.
>> 
>> I hope this further clarifies the matter,
>> 
>> --
>> Ceki
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 4/23/2016 19:00, Ralph Goers wrote:
>>> I suppose that depends on the definition of “event loss”.  You can’t log
>>> without a LoggerContext and the LoggerContext is initialized with a
>>> default configuration, which means errors will be logged to the console.
>>> We could create a default configuration that buffers the events and logs
>>> then again when stop is called.
>>> 
>>> Ralph
>>> 
>>>> On Apr 23, 2016, at 7:18 AM, Ceki Gulcu <ceki@qos.ch <mailto:ceki@qos.ch>
>>>> <mailto:ceki@qos.ch <mailto:ceki@qos.ch>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> You are welcome.
>>>> 
>>>> In the principle, the  event loss issue (fixed by event replay
>>>> post-initialization) depends on the time it takes for the underlying
>>>> implementation to initialize. Unless you can guarantee that log4j2
>>>> initializes instantly**, during SLF4J initialization event loss will
>>>> occur with log4j2 as well. Note the event loss issue is limited to
>>>> applications using slf4j which are multi-threaded early on.
>>>> 
>>>> > Would you mind sharing which applications perform reflection on
>>>> > the org.slf4j.Logger implementation (and why)?
>>>> 
>>>> The typical example is Spring which may do reflection on logger
>>>> instances. If the org.slg4j.Logger implementation offers the
>>>> log(org.slf4j.event.LoggingEvent) method, then the
>>>> org.slf4j.event.LoggingEvent interface must exist on the class path.
>>>> Otherwise, the Spring initialization will fail. The
>>>> org.slf4j.event.LoggingEvent interface was introduced in slf4j-api
>>>> version 1.7.15. It follows that if you decide to make use of the slf4j
>>>> replay feature, then log42 will de facto depend on slf4j version
>>>> 1.7.15 both at compile and runtime.
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Ceki
>>>> 
>>>> **I am presuming here that log4j2 initializes when it creates and
>>>> returns its first Logger.
>>>> 
>>>> On 4/23/2016 15:54, Remko Popma wrote:
>>>>> ...and thank you for the info, Ceki, that is certainly helpful!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Remko
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Saturday, 23 April 2016, Remko Popma <remko.popma@gmail.com <mailto:remko.popma@gmail.com>
>>>>> <mailto:remko.popma@gmail.com <mailto:remko.popma@gmail.com>>
>>>>> <mailto:remko.popma@gmail.com <mailto:remko.popma@gmail.com>>>
wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>   Question: does the replay support solve a problem in SLF4J or in
>>>>>   Logback initialization?
>>>>> 
>>>>>   If the latter, then perhaps there's no need to implement the new
>>>>>   method since log4j-slf4j-impl binds to log4j2 anyway, no?
>>>>> 
>>>>>   Remko
>>>>> 
>>>>>   Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>    > On 2016/04/23, at 22:12, Ceki Gulcu <ceki@qos.ch <mailto:ceki@qos.ch>
>>>>> <mailto:ceki@qos.ch <mailto:ceki@qos.ch>> <javascript:;>>
>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>    >
>>>>>    > Hello,
>>>>>    >
>>>>>    > For your information, slf4j-api version 1.7.21 will work with
>>>>>   current versions of log4j2 just fine albeit without replay support.
>>>>>   For replay support, log4j2's implementation of org.slf4j.Logger
>>>>>   interface needs to have a method with the signature
>>>>>   log(org.slf4j.event.LoggingEvent) in which case events generated
>>>>>   during SLF4J initialization will be replayed. Note that if log4j2's
>>>>>   Logger implementation chooses to implement the aforementioned log
>>>>>   method, log42 will de facto depend on SLF4J version 1.7.15 and later
>>>>>   both at compile and *runtime*.
>>>>>    >
>>>>>    > The runtime dependency might seem surprising but some
>>>>>   applications perform reflection on the org.slf4j.Logger
>>>>>   implementation which will fail without slf4j-api 1.7.15 or later
>>>>>   being present on the classpath.
>>>>>    >
>>>>>    > I hope this helps,
>>>>>    >
>>>>>    > --
>>>>>    > Ceki
>>>>>    >
>>>>>    >> On 4/23/2016 14:47, Ralph Goers wrote:
>>>>>    >> We are not fully compatible with this version of SLF4J. 
It
>>>>> had some
>>>>>    >> initialization race conditions so Substitute Loggers were
>>>>> invented.
>>>>>    >> Anyway, there is a new interface we need to implement.
>>>>>    >>
>>>>>    >> Ralph
>>>>>    >>
>>>>>    >> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>    >>
>>>>>    >>> *From:* "Remko Popma (JIRA)" <jira@apache.org <mailto:jira@apache.org>
>>>>> <mailto:jira@apache.org <mailto:jira@apache.org>><javascript:;>
>>>>>   <mailto:jira@apache.org <mailto:jira@apache.org><javascript:;>>>
>>>>>    >>> *Date:* April 23, 2016 at 4:13:12 AM MST
>>>>>    >>> *To:*log4j-dev@logging.apache.org <mailto:log4j-dev@logging.apache.org>
>>>>> <mailto:log4j-dev@logging.apache.org <mailto:log4j-dev@logging.apache.org>><javascript:;>
>>>>>   <mailto:log4j-dev@logging.apache.org <mailto:log4j-dev@logging.apache.org><javascript:;>>
>>>>>    >>> *Subject:* *[jira] [Closed] (LOG4J2-1375) Update SLF4J
from
>>>>>   1.7.13 to
>>>>>    >>> 1.7.21*
>>>>>    >>> *Reply-To:* "Log4J Developers List"
>>>>>   <log4j-dev@logging.apache.org <mailto:log4j-dev@logging.apache.org>
>>>>> <mailto:log4j-dev@logging.apache.org <mailto:log4j-dev@logging.apache.org>><javascript:;>
>>>>>    >>> <mailto:log4j-dev@logging.apache.org <mailto:log4j-dev@logging.apache.org><javascript:;>>>
>>>>>    >>>
>>>>>    >>>
>>>>>    >>>    [
>>>>>    >>>
>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4J2-1375?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel
<https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4J2-1375?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel>
>>>>>    >>> ]
>>>>>    >>>
>>>>>    >>> Remko Popma closed LOG4J2-1375.
>>>>>    >>> -------------------------------
>>>>>    >>>   Resolution: Fixed
>>>>>    >>>
>>>>>    >>>> Update SLF4J from 1.7.13 to 1.7.21
>>>>>    >>>> ----------------------------------
>>>>>    >>>>
>>>>>    >>>>               Key: LOG4J2-1375
>>>>>    >>>>               URL:
>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4J2-1375 <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4J2-1375>
>>>>>    >>>>           Project: Log4j 2
>>>>>    >>>>        Issue Type: Improvement
>>>>>    >>>>        Components: SLF4J Bridge
>>>>>    >>>>  Affects Versions: 2.5
>>>>>    >>>>          Reporter: Remko Popma
>>>>>    >>>>          Assignee: Remko Popma
>>>>>    >>>>           Fix For: 2.6
>>>>>    >>>>
>>>>>    >>>>
>>>>>    >>>> Update SLF4J from 1.7.13 to 1.7.21
>>>>>    >>>
>>>>>    >>>
>>>>>    >>>
>>>>>    >>> --
>>>>>    >>> This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA
>>>>>    >>> (v6.3.4#6332)
>>>>>    >>>
>>>>>    >>>
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>>>> 
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