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From Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Deprecated factory methods replaced by builders.
Date Thu, 08 Sep 2016 04:26:24 GMT
This is actually why I suggested making an spi package long ago in core for
public classes that would remain BC. Sadly, it's a little late for that now.

On 7 September 2016 at 23:22, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 9:17 PM, Remko Popma <remko.popma@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Okay.
>> Shall we introduce an @Internal annotation?
>>
>
> Please no, everything in Core is internal. I think we need to start with
> English sentences before we get caught up on details of how to communicate
> that to users.
>
> Gary
>
>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 2016/09/08, at 12:52, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I agree that util packages are out of scope for BC. That's especially
>> true in log4j-api where everything else has BC concerns.
>>
>> On 7 September 2016 at 21:14, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I do not think NullOutputStream.NULL_OUTPUT_STREAM is a good example
>>> because the Core util package is or should out of bounds for BC. I thought
>>> we had "agreed" on that.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Remko Popma <remko.popma@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> We should make an effort not to break compatibility unless it's
>>>> unavoidable. There is usually a way to accomplish things without breaking
>>>> BC.
>>>>
>>>> This is doubly true for plugins but should be our policy in general.
>>>>
>>>> We should not make breaking changes for aesthetic reasons. For example,
>>>> NullOutputStream.NULL_OUTPUT_STREAM would have been better named
>>>> INSTANCE, but this is one thing I would not change at this stage.
>>>>
>>>> One of the reasons people (I think on the Spark mailing list) mentioned
>>>> for putting off upgrading from Log4j 1.2 to Log4j 2 was worries we would
>>>> make breaking changes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On 2016/09/08, at 8:03, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We really need to document what we want to strive to maintain
>>>>> compatibility with in core.  Basic components like Appenders and their
>>>>> managers, Filters, Layouts, & Lookups or pretty much any Plugin type
would
>>>>> be at the top of my list.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bleh, then we need to mark methods in some @tag-way in Javadocs.
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 7, 2016, at 11:05 AM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Remko Popma <remko.popma@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> We should do this before starting the 2.7 release.
>>>>>> If we are serious about being the replacement for Log4j 1.2 we should
>>>>>> not break user code for no good reason.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What does this have to do with 1.2?
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 7:25 AM, Remko Popma <remko.popma@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think that would be good.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Based on the number of Jira tickets being filed we are beginning
to
>>>>>>> see increased uptake. Programmatic configuration is used surprisingly
>>>>>>> often. Leaving the factory methods in with some reasonable default
for the
>>>>>>> missing parameters ensures existing users can smoothly upgrade.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2016/09/07, at 3:03, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All the commits that removed deprecated factory methods it sounds
>>>>>>> like.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6 September 2016 at 13:00, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Should we revert those commits? There's still time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What commit? Do you mean to add back factory methods?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3 September 2016 at 01:12, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.
>>>>>>>>> com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps we shouldn’t have.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 7:46 PM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We've already removed several deprecated factories
in this
>>>>>>>>>> upcoming release, though.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2 September 2016 at 06:28, Mikael Ståldal <
>>>>>>>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with Remko, let's keep them unless they
are in the way.
>>>>>>>>>>> We can remove all of them in Log4j 3.0.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Remko Popma <
>>>>>>>>>>> remko.popma@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It was mentioned on a mailing list or twitter
conversation with
>>>>>>>>>>>> maintainers of another Apache project that
one of the reasons they hesitate
>>>>>>>>>>>> to migrate to Log4j is that they worry we
will break binary compatibility.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Removing the factory methods just because
we deprecated them
>>>>>>>>>>>> seems a bit harsh.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's not like it's a huge maintenance effort
to keep them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I would not remove the deprecated factory
methods unless they
>>>>>>>>>>>> actively prevent us from doing something
we want to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Remko
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2016/09/02, at 6:29, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, Java seems to have a policy of waiting
at least 10 years,
>>>>>>>>>>>> if ever….
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Seriously, I don’t think 1 minor release
is enough as that
>>>>>>>>>>>> might very well be the next release.  I’d
say 2 minor releases and at least
>>>>>>>>>>>> 6 months.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2016, at 1:42 PM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that when you add a builder and deprecate
the factory,
>>>>>>>>>>>> you should remove it in the next 2.x release.
Otherwise, deprecation has no
>>>>>>>>>>>> point if there's no version with the deprecation
specified.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1 September 2016 at 13:40, Gary Gregory
<
>>>>>>>>>>>> garydgregory@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> When can we delete factory methods that
are deprecated by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> builders?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <ggregory@apache.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second
Edition
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV*
>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com
>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3  | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden
 |   www.magine.com
>>>>>>>>>>>   <http://www.magine.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may
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>>>>>>>>>>> you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone.
In such case,
>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>>>>>> <ggregory@apache.org>
>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>>> <ggregory@apache.org>
>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> Home: http://garygregory.com/
> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>



-- 
Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>

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