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From Mark Miller <>
Subject Re: discussion about release frequency.
Date Mon, 20 Sep 2010 13:00:11 GMT

> (BTW, I love the "Maven is Magic" (and really any "It's magic, therefore I don't like
it") reasoning for not liking it, whereby everyone complains that b/c Maven hides a bunch
of details from you (i.e. it's "magic"), therefore you don't like it.  At the same time, I'm
sure said person doesn't understand every last detail of, oh, I don't know: the CPU, RAM,
the Compiler, the JDK, etc. and yet they have no problem using that.  In other words, we deal
with abstractions all the time.  It's fine if you don't get the abstraction or don't personally
find it useful, but that doesn't make the abstraction bad.) 
> -Grant

Maven is not bad because it's magic - magic is frigging great - I want
my software to be magic - it's bad because every 5 line program from
some open source code/project that I have tried to build with it has
gone on an absurd downloading spree that takes forever because it's
getting many tiny files. This downloading spree never corresponds to the
size of the code base I am working with, and always manages to surprise
by the amount of time it can slurp up.

That's enough for me right there - I've heard others talk of other non
magical things that sound scary, but I won't dig any deeper into this
absurdity. Either I *really* don't like Maven, or no one knows how to
properly set it up - which makes me still not like it. When the magic is
absurd, it loses a little of its magic.

Finally, there is a difference between releasing source code, releasing
signed jars, and signed maven files, and *just* releasing signed jars.
Dropping maven doesn't get you back down to releasing source code. I
still think Maven should be a downstream issue.

- Mark

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