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From David Lee <nightwrite...@comcast.net>
Subject Re: Poll: Master-Slave or SolrCloud?
Date Fri, 28 Apr 2017 03:51:59 GMT
As someone who moved from ES to Solr, I can say that one of the things 
that makes ES so much easier to configure is that the majority of things 
that need to be set for a specific environment are all in pretty much 
one config file. Also, I didn't have to deal with the "magic stuff" that 
many people have talked about where SolrCloud is concerned.

One of the problems is also do to documentation and user blogs that 
discuss how to use SolrCloud. They all tell you how to create a config 
to run SolrCloud on one system using the -e cloud flag, but then that's 
it. They all seem to avoid discussions of what to do from there in terms 
of best practices in distributing to other nodes. It's out there, but in 
many cases the guides refer to older versions of Solr so sometimes it is 
hard to know what versions people are writing about until you try their 
solutions and nothing works, so you finally figure out they are talking 
about a much older version.

I moved away from ES to Solr because I prefer the openness of Solr and 
the community participation but I really haven't been very successful in 
deploying this in a production environment at this point.

I'd say the two things I find that I'm battling with the most are the 
cloud configuration and the work I'm having to do to get even the most 
basic JSON documents indexed correctly (specifically where I need block 
joins, etc.).

I'm hopeful that the V2 Api will help with the JSON issue, but it would 
be nice to have some documentation that goes more in-depth on how to set 
up additional nodes. Also, even though I use ZK for other parts of my 
application, I have no problem with a version running specifically for 
Solr if it makes this process more straight-forward.

David



On 4/27/2017 2:51 AM, Emir Arnautovic wrote:
> I think creating poll for ES ppl with question: "How do you run master 
> nodes? A) on some data nodes B) dedicated node C) dedicated server" 
> would give some insight how big issue is having ZK and if hiding ZK 
> behind Solr would do any good.
>
> Emir
>
>
> On 25.04.2017 23:13, Otis Gospodnetić wrote:
>> Hi Erick,
>>
>> Could one run *only* embedded ZK on some SolrCloud nodes, sans any data?
>> It would be equivalent of dedicated Elasticsearch nodes, which is the
>> current ES best practice/recommendation.  I've never heard of anyone 
>> being
>> scared of running 3 dedicated master ES nodes, so if SolrCloud 
>> offered the
>> same, perhaps even completely hiding ZK from users, that would 
>> present the
>> same level of complexity (err, simplicity) ES users love about ES.  
>> Don't
>> want to talk about SolrCloud vs. ES here at all, just trying to share
>> observations since we work a lot with both Elasticsearch and 
>> Solr(Cloud) at
>> Sematext.
>>
>> Otis
>> -- 
>> Monitoring - Log Management - Alerting - Anomaly Detection
>> Solr & Elasticsearch Consulting Support Training - http://sematext.com/
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 4:03 PM, Erick Erickson 
>> <erickerickson@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> bq: I read somewhere that you should run your own ZK externally, and
>>> turn off SolrCloud
>>>
>>> this is a bit confused. "turn off SolrCloud" has nothing to do with
>>> running ZK internally or externally. SolrCloud requires ZK, whether
>>> internal or external is irrelevant to the term SolrCloud.
>>>
>>> On to running an external ZK ensemble. Mostly, that's administratively
>>> by far the safest. If you're running the embedded ZK, then the ZK
>>> instances are tied to your Solr instance. Now if, for any reason, your
>>> Solr nodes hosting ZK go down, you lose ZK quorum, can't index.
>>> etc....
>>>
>>> Now consider a cluster with, say, 100 Solr nodes. Not talking replicas
>>> in a collection here, I'm talking 100 physical machines. BTW, this is
>>> not even close to the largest ones I'm aware of. Which three (for
>>> example) are running ZK? If I want to upgrade Solr I better make
>>> really sure not to upgrade to of the Solr instances running ZK at once
>>> if I want my cluster to keep going....
>>>
>>> And, ZK is sensitive to system resources. So putting ZK on a Solr node
>>> then hosing, say, updates to my Solr cluster can cause ZK to be
>>> starved for resources.
>>>
>>> This is one of those deals where _functionally_, it's OK to run
>>> embedded ZK, but administratively it's suspect.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Erick
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Rick Leir <rleir@leirtech.com> wrote:
>>>> All,
>>>> I read somewhere that you should run your own ZK externally, and turn
>>> off SolrCloud. Comments please!
>>>> Rick
>>>>
>>>> On April 25, 2017 1:33:31 PM EDT, "Otis Gospodnetić" <
>>> otis.gospodnetic@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> This is interesting - that ZK is seen as adding so much complexity 
>>>>> that
>>>>> it
>>>>> turns people off!
>>>>>
>>>>> If you think about it, Elasticsearch users have no choice -- except
>>>>> their
>>>>> "ZK" is built-in, hidden, so one doesn't have to think about it, at
>>>>> least
>>>>> not initially.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think I saw mentions (maybe on user or dev MLs or JIRA) about
>>>>> potentially, in the future, there only being SolrCloud mode (and
>>>>> dropping
>>>>> SolrCloud name in favour of Solr).  If the above comment from Charlie
>>>>> about
>>>>> complexity is really true for Solr users, and if that's the reason 
>>>>> why
>>>>> we
>>>>> see so few people running SolrCloud today, perhaps that's a good 
>>>>> signal
>>>>> for
>>>>> Solr development/priorities in terms of ZK
>>>>> hiding/automating/embedding/something...
>>>>>
>>>>> Otis
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Monitoring - Log Management - Alerting - Anomaly Detection
>>>>> Solr & Elasticsearch Consulting Support Training - 
>>>>> http://sematext.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 4:50 AM, Charlie Hull <charlie@flax.co.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 24/04/2017 15:58, Otis Gospodnetić wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm really really surprised here.  Back in 2013 we did a poll
to 
>>>>>>> see
>>>>> how
>>>>>>> people were running Master-Slave (4.x back then) and SolrCloud

>>>>>>> was a
>>>>> bit
>>>>>>> more popular than Master-Slave:
>>>>>>> https://sematext.com/blog/2013/02/25/poll-solr-cloud-or-not/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here is a fresh new poll with pretty much the same question -

>>>>>>> How do
>>>>> you
>>>>>>> run your Solr?
>>>>> <https://twitter.com/sematext/status/854927627748036608> -
>>>>>>> and guess what?  SolrCloud is *not* at all a lot more prevalent

>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>> Master-Slave.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We definitely see a lot more SolrCloud used by Sematext Solr
>>>>>>> consulting/support customers, so I'm a bit surprised by the results
>>>>> of
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> poll so far.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not particularly surprised. We regularly see clients either with
>>>>>> single nodes or elderly versions of Solr (or even Lucene). Zookeeper
>>>>> is
>>>>>> still seen as a bit of a black art. Once you move from 'how do I
run
>>>>> a
>>>>>> search engine' to 'how do I manage a cluster of servers with scaling
>>>>> for
>>>>>> performance/resilience/failover' you're looking at a completely new
>>>>> set
>>>>>> of skills and challenges, which I think puts many people off.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Charlie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is anyone else surprised by this?  See 
>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/sematext/
>>>>>>> status/854927627748036608
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Otis
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> Monitoring - Log Management - Alerting - Anomaly Detection
>>>>>>> Solr & Elasticsearch Consulting Support Training -
>>>>> http://sematext.com/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>>>>>> http://www.avg.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Charlie Hull
>>>>>> Flax - Open Source Enterprise Search
>>>>>>
>>>>>> tel/fax: +44 (0)8700 118334
>>>>>> mobile:  +44 (0)7767 825828
>>>>>> web: www.flax.co.uk
>>>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Sorry for being brief. Alternate email is rickleir at yahoo dot com
>


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