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From Michael Miklavcic <michael.miklav...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Slack Channel Use
Date Mon, 12 Nov 2018 17:40:51 GMT
Your suggestion is well received. I think what we're trying to avoid is a
big dump of Slack's stream of consciousness. There is an inherent
organization and required collection of thoughts that comes with the
dev/user list discussions that doesn't occur on Slack. Maybe threads can
help that a bit, but I'm not sure it should be a full replacement.

On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 9:49 AM Scott C. Cote <scottccote@gmail.com> wrote:

> I realize that I’m a  “new kid” here, but I think you can have your cake
> and eat it too…..
>
> If I can create it, find it, or configure it, perhaps the really best way
> is to be able to either:
>
> 1) dump public slack conversations to the developer thread - arbitrarily
> 2) dump public slack conversations to the user thread - IFF the
> thread/conversation was tagged #user (or equivalent)
>
> Slack is a wonderful tool for facilitating discussions - I cannot
> emphasize how often spam filters and the inherent slowness email servers -
> have interfered with rapid conversations.  Additionally, the big “ask” of
> any resolution on slack -  has been “can you put this in the email
> thread”.      Goes without saying that the even bigger ask has been - can
> this be contributed to the documentation.
>
> I strongly recommend that you streamline the flow of information from
> Slack to the list archives.
>
> SCott
> Scott C. Cote
> scottccote@gmail.com
> 972.900.1561
>
> twitter: @scottccote
>
>
>
> > On Nov 12, 2018, at 9:07 AM, Justin Leet <justinjleet@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I wanted to add back onto this thread after putting some more thought
> into
> > it.
> >
> > I like Slack for the type of small developer "what's going on here?" type
> > discussions.  That's the kind of thing I like being real-time ("Hey, full
> > dev is acting weird", "What's the basic layout of this stuff?", "Anybody
> > else seen this test failure?", etc.).  I think we've been pretty good
> about
> > keeping our decision type dev discussions to the list (e.g. this exact
> > conversation).
> >
> > We've been doing this more, but I would like to see more of the user and
> > troubleshooting move to the list.  I think we've gotten a bit better
> about
> > it as we've settled into Slack, but having that sort of helpful stuff
> > exposed and searchable for users who come in afterwards is a big selling
> > point of the lists, imo.
> >
> > To add onto this, I'd probably like to see
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/METRON/Community+Resources#CommunityResources-ApacheMetronCommunityResources
> > (and any other relevant links) updated to emphasize a Slack focus on
> > developing Metron itself, and the user lists for configuration,
> > troubleshooting, etc.
> >
> > Essentially, I'm proposing:
> > Dev list / Jira / PRs as usual for any actual decisions + concrete
> feature
> > discussion/review.
> > Slack for Metron development "Hey, anyone seen this or have insight or a
> > starting point?" and "I'm seeing something weird in our tests" type stuff
> > User list for usage and troubleshooting questions.  Generally,
> discussions
> > like this in Slack should be redirected to the user list.
> >
> > Is this a reasonable way separate our concerns here?
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:37 AM Michael Miklavcic <
> > michael.miklavcic@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Yeah, I'm also surprised by that comment about the mailing list
> activity.
> >> Our dev/user list discussions are by far more active than they've ever
> >> been. Just have a look at the list of DISCUSS threads that have come up
> in
> >> the past few months and it's clear that not only participation has
> >> increased, but diversity of topic and participant.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:08 AM Casey Stella <cestella@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Not for nothing, but at least according to the last board report that I
> >>> submitted, the user@ traffic is up 100% and the dev list traffic is
> flat
> >>> as
> >>> compared to last quarter.  That's not to say that we couldn't stand
> more
> >>> discussion on the lists, but a lot of the dev discussion happens on
> >> github
> >>> and JIRA and I'm happy to see an uptick in user traffic.
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:05 AM Otto Fowler <ottobackwards@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I wouldn’t be so quick to related the slack discussion with perceived
> >>>> activity on the list.
> >>>> That is more do to the other things that are bigger issues.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On October 24, 2018 at 07:15:30, Nick Allen (nick@nickallen.org)
> >> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I have heard recently people thought Metron is sort of dead just
> >>> because
> >>>> the mailing list is not so active anymore!
> >>>>
> >>>> That is exactly my concern.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 2:49 AM Ali Nazemian <alinazemian@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I kind of expect to have Slack for more dev related discussions
> >> rather
> >>>> than
> >>>>> user QA. I guess it is quite common to expect mailing list to be
used
> >>> for
> >>>>> the purpose of knowledge sharing to make sure it will be accessible
> >> by
> >>>>> other users as well. Of course, it is a trade-off that most of the
> >>> other
> >>>>> Apache projects decided to accept the risk of keeping user related
> >>>>> discussions out of Slack/IRC. However, it sometimes happens to see
> >> the
> >>>>> mixture of questions coming to Slack. I have heard recently people
> >>>> thought
> >>>>> Metron is sort of dead just because the mailing list is not so active
> >>>>> anymore!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>> Ali
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 8:23 AM Casey Stella <cestella@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Agreed, the benefit of the mailing list is that it’s searchable
by
> >>>>> ponymail
> >>>>>> and the major search engines.
> >>>>>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 17:18 Nick Allen <nick@nickallen.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I don't know that it is the same kind of searchable. Is
it being
> >>>>> indexed
> >>>>>>> by the major search engines? I have never used a search
engine
> >> and
> >>>>>>> uncovered the answer to my problem in a Slack archive.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 5:05 PM Otto Fowler <
> >>> ottobackwards@gmail.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> According to Greg Stein, an infra admin on the NiFi
slack, the
> >>> ASF
> >>>>>> slack
> >>>>>>>> that metron is in IS the standard plan, not the free
one and is
> >>>>>>> searchable
> >>>>>>>> past 10,000 messages.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On October 22, 2018 at 15:35:51, Michael Miklavcic (
> >>>>>>>> michael.miklavcic@gmail.com) wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ...From an archival and broader reach point of view,
I do think
> >>>>> there's
> >>>>>>>> something to be said about using the mailing list. It's
also
> >>> easier
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>> link
> >>>>>>>> to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do
> >> searches...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1aa85bc13d41e04a1f85c3100c2b803abe35d79b54062bbeaab83ace@%3Cdev.metron.apache.org%3E
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> How very Inception.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 1:32 PM Michael Miklavcic <
> >>>>>>>> michael.miklavcic@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I just want to point out that we currently have
32 members in
> >>> the
> >>>>>>> Metron
> >>>>>>>>> Slack channel which I personally think is a great
sign. This
> >> is
> >>>>> good
> >>>>>>> from
> >>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>> community perspective and helps foster interactive
sessions
> >>> where
> >>>>>>>> required.
> >>>>>>>>> From an archival and broader reach point of view,
I do think
> >>>>> there's
> >>>>>>>>> something to be said about using the mailing list.
It's also
> >>>> easier
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> link
> >>>>>>>>> to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and
do
> >> searches.
> >>> As
> >>>>>>> such, I
> >>>>>>>>> would also go along with Nick's suggestion and urge
members
> >> to
> >>>>> prefer
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> user/dev list where possible.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 10:51 AM Justin Leet <
> >>>>> justinjleet@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> If we want to push more discussion to the dev
list, my
> >> obvious
> >>>>>> follow
> >>>>>>> up
> >>>>>>>>>> question then is "What are we hoping to get
out of
> >>>> Slack/irc/other
> >>>>>>>>>> interactive medium?". What discussion would
we even want on
> >>>> there,
> >>>>>> if
> >>>>>>> we
> >>>>>>>>>> can't have decisions and don't want usage/support?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:44 PM Casey Stella
<
> >>>> cestella@gmail.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I am of 2 minds, but I tend to agree. On
the one hand,
> >> it's
> >>>>>>> definitely
> >>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> preference that we use the mailing lists
for the reasons
> >> you
> >>>>>> stated
> >>>>>>>> (and
> >>>>>>>>>>> also because not everyone has access to
slack generally).
> >> On
> >>>> the
> >>>>>>> other
> >>>>>>>>>>> hand, I think an interactive medium like
Slack has a lot
> >> of
> >>>>>>> advantages
> >>>>>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>>>> terms of user satisfaction. Ultimately,
though, we may
> >>> satisfy
> >>>> 1
> >>>>>>> user
> >>>>>>>>>> at
> >>>>>>>>>>> the cost of not persisting the discussion
and satisfying
> >>> many
> >>>>>> users.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I'll go along with a specific preference
to drive more
> >>>>> discussion
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> mailing list.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Casey
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:18 PM Nick Allen
<
> >>>> nick@nickallen.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> It seems that we are seeing a lot of
Metron usage and
> >>>> support
> >>>>>>>>>> questions
> >>>>>>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the Slack Channel.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> These are questions that previously
would have been
> >>> directed
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> User
> >>>>>>>>>>> or
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dev mailing lists. Since this is occurring
in the Slack
> >>>>> Channel,
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> conversations are not archived.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> In my opinion, this is not good for
the Metron
> >> community.
> >>>>> Having
> >>>>>>>> this
> >>>>>>>>>>>> persisted in a discoverable form (like
a mailing list
> >>>> archive)
> >>>>>> not
> >>>>>>>>>> only
> >>>>>>>>>>>> helps support current users, but also
helps *potential*
> >>>> users
> >>>>>>>>>> understand
> >>>>>>>>>>>> how Metron is being used.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else agree or disagree?
At a minimum, I feel
> >>> we
> >>>>> need
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>> do
> >>>>>>>>>>>> something to direct these conversations
back to the
> >>> mailing
> >>>>>> list.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> A.Nazemian
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>

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