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From Marcin Okraszewski <okrasz_n...@o2.pl>
Subject Re: Commit Times for Issues
Date Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:33:43 GMT
I can say something from a contributor point of view. I've contributed two rather trivial patches
and ... I'm discouraged. Simply the process was far too long. Actually I had to ask that someone
takes a look for it. Once someone invest his time to create patch, write a Jira entry, etc.,
you rather expect it to be reviewed and possibly committed. If there is at least one person
who needs it that much that is willing to develop it, it may mean there might be others who
would need it as well.

Just to add. I've done some several contributions to some other projects, but this is first
time I have a feeling like this.

As looking for perfection, it must be balanced in my opinion. If there is something trivial
which is not done perfect, which does not break architecture ... well, it might be acceptable.
But if something would make a spaghetti code, I wouldn't be so much for it. So my rule of
thumb would be - once it breaks well design, introduces too big complexity, it shouldn't be
accepted. If it doesn't influence those, but does what it should, maybe in a bit clumsy way
- why not. It still solves someone's problem or need.

Regards,
Marcin


Dnia 16 listopada 2007 18:45 Dennis Kubes <kubes@apache.org> napisaƂ(a):

> So a few years ago I started a dating site called oneforever.com.  Good 
> technology, but it took us 9 months to develop the first version. 
> Mostly because we wanted everything to be perfect.  So we would work on 
> something, if it was not perfect change it, and so on.  We never did get 
> it perfect, we just got it to the point where we had to launch it.
> 
> A few months ago a started a different project focused around social 
> networking and search.  With this project I took the viewpoint of 
> consistent progress every day.  I would make some improvement to it 
> everyday, no matter how small.  No such thing as perfect, just better. 
> This project developed much quicker and I think is actually a better 
> code base.  And what was more it was fun to work on.
> 
> All of this is to say that I don't think there is any such thing as 
> perfection.  I do think there is better, continuously better.  And since 
> we all enjoy programming (I hope), the making something better (not 
> perfect or best) is the fun part (or at least should be).  I can only 
> talk from my experience but I think the best part of programming is when 
> I have found the solution to the problem and it just works.
> 
> So as we are developing this *standard* for committers I agree with 
> Chris that we should make this fun and casual and not be worried about 
> breaking the trunk.  After all, it's only code (I know, to some people 
> that is heresy :)) I actually think we are all in agreement about this. 
>   I would love to hear from some of the other committers or members of 
> the community before we put these thoughts down on a wiki.
> 
> Oh, and I am ok with minor issues having a longer wait time or 1 or more +1.
> 
> Dennis Kubes
> 
> Chris Mattmann wrote:
> > Hi Guys,
> > 
> >  I'd like to chime in here on this one. My +1 for shortening the time to
> > commit for issues. I fear that development effort on Nutch has teetered on
> > the dwindling side of things for the last year or so, and there (in my
> > opinion, so feel free to disagree) is certainly a stigma to the trunk and
> > its "sacred" nature that discourages people (including myself) from
> > introducing new code there.
> > 
> >  I would like to propose even extending Dennis's idea below and developing a
> > new philosophy towards the Nutch CM. To me, the big picture change is the
> > following statement: "the trunk is something that can be broke." Let's just
> > accept that it's possible. If it's broke, someone will report it. Nutch has
> > a big enough user base now that plays around with new builds and revisions
> > that this will get caught. Guess what. If the trunk is broke, then it can be
> > fixed. 
> > 
> >  I'll tell you guys a story of one of my bosses here at JPL. He used to work
> > for a civil defense contractor in the U.S., with very rigorous design and
> > software development process. Unit tests for each line of code type of
> > place. In any case, my boss used to break his company's equivalent of the
> > "trunk" daily build process all the time. Well one day he gets called in to
> > speak with the vice president of engineering at the company, who proceeds to
> > tell him: "You're really good at breaking the code, eh?". My boss
> > immediately jumps up to defend himself, citing the fact that it wasn't a big
> > problem and that he has fixed it already, but the vice president cuts him
> > off and says, "You probably think I'm mad. Well let me tell you: I'm not.
> > You can break the code all you want because you know what it tells me? That
> > you're actually *DOING WORK* unlike the rest of these people who work here
> > and do very little."
> > 
> >  The above story has stuck with me and made me feel a lot better about
> > situations such as those in that it gives me the belief that waiting until
> > everything is perfect before acting in a situation isn't always the best
> > thing to do because you may end up waiting forever. It's better to make
> > incremental progress (even falter while doing so), because what you end up
> > with may be just as good (or even better) as if you tried to be a
> > perfectionist and only made progress/did work when you felt everything was
> > "right".
> > 
> >  My 2 cents,
> >   Chris
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > On 11/15/07 1:37 PM, "Dennis Kubes"  wrote:
> > 
> >> So I have been talking with some of the other committers and I wanted to
> >> layout a suggestion for standardizing some of the nutch committer
> >> workflow processes in the hope of speeding up nutch development.
> >>
> >> The first one I was hoping to tackle is time to commit.  At least for me
> >> it has been hard to know when to commit something, especially when it
> >> was trivial or no one commented on the issue.  Here is what is being
> >> proposed:
> >>
> >> Trivial changes = immediate, this at the discretion of the committers
> >> Minor changes = 24 hours from latest patch or 1 or more +1 from committers
> >> Major and blocker changes = 4 days from latest patch or 2 or more +1
> >> from committers
> >>
> >> This way if an issue has been active for some time but no one has taken
> >> a look at it, and it has passed all unit tests, then we can go ahead and
> >> commit it.  Also this should allow more of the smaller changes to be
> >> handled faster.
> >>
> >> So these of course are just some suggestions would love to hear from
> >> others in the community.  What I think would be best is to come to a
> >> consensus on this and then have a wiki page describing this and other
> >> processes for committers.
> >>
> >> Dennis Kubes
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> > Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
> > Cognizant Development Engineer
> > Early Detection Research Network Project
> > _________________________________________________
> > Jet Propulsion Laboratory            Pasadena, CA
> > Office: 171-266B                     Mailstop:  171-246
> > _______________________________________________________
> > 
> > Disclaimer:  The opinions presented within are my own and do not reflect
> > those of either NASA, JPL, or the California Institute of Technology.
> > 
> > 
> 

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