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From Christian Lippka>
Subject Re: Some more strange files in the OOo code
Date Tue, 21 Jun 2011 23:43:36 GMT
It is astounding how even saying something *good* about LO triggers a very
personal and aggressive response. I refrained to say anything remotely 
about LO in the last days, now I will stop saying anything remotely positive
about LO. Lesson learned.


Am 22.06.2011 01:30, schrieb Christian Lohmaier:
> On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 12:30 AM, Christian Lippka<>  wrote:
>> As a developer I think we can learn a lot from the LO people in terms of
>> creating
>> a user feeling. I think a mistake from OOo was to actually spend more time
>> coding
>> and less time community building.
> The problem is that all the community building efforts that were
> slowly beginning to work during Sun's governance were nullified when
> Oracle took over.
> It is you to blame that large parts just waited for a foundation to
> form,
Thank you, I never realized it was me personally to thank for the 
creation of TDF :-)
>   and sure, you can go on and whine about how bad LO and the TDF
> is because the moved away, and you can keep on saying that the
> contributions that all the volunteers did to LO in the meantime were
> just whitespace cleanups (which of course is not true) and belittle
> all the numerous contributions. Sure, continue to live in your
> parallel world - but don't expect to have any success with that
> attitude.
> At least there was and is progress on LibreOffice, while there was
> stagnation on OOo.
> And I fully agree - as a developer you should stop bitching around.
> And as Mathias wrote "go back to real work". But where is that info
> and support form Oracle's staff regarding the infrastructure
> questions? No answer to size of bugzilla-database, etc. (at lest not
> public/on this or the infrastructure list). What about pootle - will
> it come back ata ll= Stuff that is so easy to obtain for people with
> access, but instead you complain about how "evil" TDF and LO is?
> Sorry, but you really should wake up and get over with.
> OOo had built a great community and started to be trusted by companies
> and government agencies. OOo had the "foot in the door". Those who
> played with the idea of switching to OOo now backed off. And if open
> source community is lucky, the'll consider moving to LO instead of
> sticking with MS-Office.
> Now with the move to Apache you basically start over with that
> trust-building. What could save OOo is the name it has, but for that
> to work you really need to be quick in creating something that is
> usable for the end-user, and not just something that works for the
> apache process. Just removing all license conflicts won't do it.
> TDF/LO already did prove that it is capable of doing all the related
> work, apache-OOo just is getting started and already has an
> inferiority complex on the one hand (but considers itself as upstream
> on the other hand). You still have a long way to go until Apache-OOo
> is considere "upstream". No matter whether you have to trademark or
> not is irrelevant when you cannot compensate for the stuff that needs
> to be removed.
> Feel free to start bitching about LO once you got the first build from
> apache-OOo sources.
> And in case you cannot differentiate yourself: LO does not spend much
> time community building. The people just come to LO by themselves,
> press was/is positive towards TDF/LO not because we bribe them to
> write nice articles about us. TDF and LO is a real thing. You can get
> in touch, you can work on it right away. And people like that. As
> simple as that.
> TDF people have tried to communicate very positively regarding OOo's
> move to Apache, but IBM's Rob Weir (&  others) didn't stop to attack
> TDF/LO in his blog and in other spots. Journalists thankfully are not
> stupid enough to believe anything some high-profile person writes.
> And you and IBM wonder why you did get the counter-reaction of the
> TDF-Camp (not by TDF spokespersons, but by volunteers) that just could
> not take that crap anymore.
> And last but not least about the user-feeling:
> Yes, you should listen to your user-base. Those are the ones who
> promote LO/OOo after all. Oracle did a great lesson on how to not do
> it with the icon-styles. That's one of the first things that LO did
> change, and was very, very well appreciated by the users. Some even
> got that far and stated that this was the reason for switching.
> So get down of your "I'm a developer" horse any you'll see that
> listening to users, that pleasing your users is not a bad thing to do.
> If LO is perceived to be starting faster just because the splashscreen
> is shown earlier, you might not consider it worth of your coding time.
> But that's the wrong attitude.
> But enough of this thread, I'll mute it once sending this message. So
> no worries about being "distracted from doing real work" by me again,
> at least not in this thread.
> ciao
> Christian

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