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From Christian Lohmaier <>
Subject Re: Some more strange files in the OOo code
Date Tue, 21 Jun 2011 23:30:00 GMT
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 12:30 AM, Christian Lippka <> wrote:
> As a developer I think we can learn a lot from the LO people in terms of
> creating
> a user feeling. I think a mistake from OOo was to actually spend more time
> coding
> and less time community building.

The problem is that all the community building efforts that were
slowly beginning to work during Sun's governance were nullified when
Oracle took over.
It is you to blame that large parts just waited for a foundation to
form, and sure, you can go on and whine about how bad LO and the TDF
is because the moved away, and you can keep on saying that the
contributions that all the volunteers did to LO in the meantime were
just whitespace cleanups (which of course is not true) and belittle
all the numerous contributions. Sure, continue to live in your
parallel world - but don't expect to have any success with that
At least there was and is progress on LibreOffice, while there was
stagnation on OOo.

And I fully agree - as a developer you should stop bitching around.
And as Mathias wrote "go back to real work". But where is that info
and support form Oracle's staff regarding the infrastructure
questions? No answer to size of bugzilla-database, etc. (at lest not
public/on this or the infrastructure list). What about pootle - will
it come back ata ll= Stuff that is so easy to obtain for people with
access, but instead you complain about how "evil" TDF and LO is?
Sorry, but you really should wake up and get over with.

OOo had built a great community and started to be trusted by companies
and government agencies. OOo had the "foot in the door". Those who
played with the idea of switching to OOo now backed off. And if open
source community is lucky, the'll consider moving to LO instead of
sticking with MS-Office.
Now with the move to Apache you basically start over with that
trust-building. What could save OOo is the name it has, but for that
to work you really need to be quick in creating something that is
usable for the end-user, and not just something that works for the
apache process. Just removing all license conflicts won't do it.

TDF/LO already did prove that it is capable of doing all the related
work, apache-OOo just is getting started and already has an
inferiority complex on the one hand (but considers itself as upstream
on the other hand). You still have a long way to go until Apache-OOo
is considere "upstream". No matter whether you have to trademark or
not is irrelevant when you cannot compensate for the stuff that needs
to be removed.

Feel free to start bitching about LO once you got the first build from
apache-OOo sources.

And in case you cannot differentiate yourself: LO does not spend much
time community building. The people just come to LO by themselves,
press was/is positive towards TDF/LO not because we bribe them to
write nice articles about us. TDF and LO is a real thing. You can get
in touch, you can work on it right away. And people like that. As
simple as that.

TDF people have tried to communicate very positively regarding OOo's
move to Apache, but IBM's Rob Weir (& others) didn't stop to attack
TDF/LO in his blog and in other spots. Journalists thankfully are not
stupid enough to believe anything some high-profile person writes.
And you and IBM wonder why you did get the counter-reaction of the
TDF-Camp (not by TDF spokespersons, but by volunteers) that just could
not take that crap anymore.

And last but not least about the user-feeling:
Yes, you should listen to your user-base. Those are the ones who
promote LO/OOo after all. Oracle did a great lesson on how to not do
it with the icon-styles. That's one of the first things that LO did
change, and was very, very well appreciated by the users. Some even
got that far and stated that this was the reason for switching.

So get down of your "I'm a developer" horse any you'll see that
listening to users, that pleasing your users is not a bad thing to do.

If LO is perceived to be starting faster just because the splashscreen
is shown earlier, you might not consider it worth of your coding time.
But that's the wrong attitude.

But enough of this thread, I'll mute it once sending this message. So
no worries about being "distracted from doing real work" by me again,
at least not in this thread.


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