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From Dave Fisher <>
Subject Re: Website Content plus Look and Feel Improvements
Date Sun, 03 Jul 2011 19:16:24 GMT

On Jul 3, 2011, at 11:16 AM, C wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 18:53, Dave Fisher <> wrote:
>>> The short of it is.. I'll help move the MediaWiki to a new server on
>>> the Apache side (if the decision is made to do this), but I'm not
>>> interested in moving the content to Confluence (if this is the final
>>> decision).
>> Please provide a few concrete examples of the thousands of pages that will need to
be reworked. What features of MediaWiki are required and what is the purpose. Give me some
of the gory details.
>> The bar is much higher to add to Apache Infrastructure. It must be proven to Infrastructure
that we have enough volunteers that can administer the service. Confluence is already present,
as is the Apache CMS.
>> We have individuals with scripting abilities. If the wiki re-work is mechanical then
we can script it.
>> Regards,
>> Dave
> A few example items... the existing/legacy MediaWiki instance is using
> several creative tweaks such as (not an exhaustive list.. just a few):
> - PDF and ODT export.  Confluence can do PDF, but cannot do ODT..
> only MS Word DOC format (a significant issue in my view for an OOo
> Wiki... a bit sad and embarassing that we'd only be able to export a
> proprietary document format, and not the primary doc format that OOo
> is known for).  Export to PDF and ODT is something a lot of people use
> for the OOo Docs - especially the Basic and Developer's Guides.

I understand the need for ODT export. Tell us about the MediaWiki extension that is being
used, is it part of OOo or is it a third party extension?

BTW - confluence uses an intermediate html format in its conversion to PDF. Perhaps that is
something that AOOo could provide as an extension to confluence.

Or, maybe as part of an Apache CMS publishing and we can then contribute the facility to all
of Apache.

> - Dynamic page lists - creates dynamic page set views of doc content.
> This is used for dynamically  indexing the FAQs for example.

A similar effect is possible in both Confluence and Apache CMS.

> - IDL Tags - custom (but simple) MW extension that creates links to
> the IDL library

Do you mean these links:

We will need to rewrite these anyway. Tell me how these are marked up in MediaWiki.

Is the IDL reference generated from the source code? We'll need to get into that workflow

> As for the number of pages... start with the big one.. the Developer's
> Guide.
> This doc alone is approximately 1000 Wiki pages (something close to
> that... I don't know the exact number off the top of my head... it's
> around 2000 A4 pages when printed out or converted to PDF/ODT).  Like
> the other manuals in the existing/legacy OOo Wiki, it uses a
> combination of nested templates and various extensions to manage the
> subpages as a book.  It has a detailed TOC and navigation tree, IDL
> linking, etc.  This would all need to be stripped and adapted to
> convert to Confluence.  Each page would need to land in the right
> place in the document hierarchy.  Someone would need to write a
> Confluence macro or extension to handle the IDL tagging.  All the
> MediaWiki tagging would need to be converted.... and then someone
> would need to wade through the document and double check that it's
> still in a logical correct order, and tidy up the little oopses.

No doubt this is a challenge in Confluence - it likes a flat hierarchy.

If a MoinMoin Wiki is a better fit for conversion from MediaWiki we can certainly try it.

I am really for a scripted conversion no matter how we do it. We can test it on parts, make
sure it fits everyone's needs, I expect this to be iterative and repeatable.

> Add to the list, the Basic Guide, the Reference Lists, and the
> FAQs/HowTos, plus whatever Doc pages have been translated into
> Russian, French, Spanish, German etc etc, and you've got a whole lot
> of pages that need to be migrated, managed, validated, etc.
> I'm not saying it cannot be done... I am familiar with Confluence
> Wikis... I have a fair idea what you can do in them.  I also have a
> rough idea just how much work will need to be done to get the Wiki
> docs migrated to Confluence.

Each option does present challenges.

> Frank Peters also raised this point a couple of weeks ago... so I'm
> not the only one raising a little white flag and saying this part of
> the website migration is not going to be as easy as migrating basic MW
> content. :-)
> One other minor point... licensing shouldn't be a barrier for these
> Doc Wiki pages regardless of what is done with them... all of the
> Documentation subpages are either CC-By or PDL (or both). If a Doc
> Wiki page isn't clearly licensed, then it doesn't belong, or needs to
> be corrected.

License due diligence is a key factor. Every page is going to need to be visible and checked
by PPMC members. This part of our duty for due diligence. ASF Legal Affairs may have an opinion.

> C.
> --
> Clayton Cornell
> Documentation Project co-lead

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