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From Dave Fisher <>
Subject Re: [email] RE: [Discuss] ASF hosted email service [Was: Re: [Discussion]]
Date Sat, 20 Aug 2011 20:33:32 GMT

On Aug 20, 2011, at 12:47 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:

> I'm concerned that we are still conflating two different problems.

Technically the mail forwarding for MLs and individuals will work in the same - via a mapping.
We can plan on that part while we figure out our consensus for the two categories that you
describe. Of course the size of the forwarding database might be a concern.

> 1. One has to do with where this is a personal forwarding set up
for some user (or entity) and it forwards to another e-mail address.  If these are preserved,
forwarding them to some other email address to then be forwarded to the original entity does
not make a lot of sense.  The issue here is that the entity is known by that email address
and has connections that access that entity by that email address.
>  It is a good idea to preserve that service so that the entities that have use of the
individual ones can somehow manage their forwarding.  I would not want to figure out how to
retire it until later, and with considerable warning.  Having an individual's e-mail address
disappear is not a pleasant experience.

I think that we can do a reasonable phasing out of these emails.

- send a moving announcement.
- remove all that are bounced.

But actively managing this will be a big task as there are many, many of these addresses.

> 2. The other has to do with mailing lists and their subscribers.  This is a different
game.  The fact that forwarding might be part of it is rather different.  There are archives
to preserve and there are identity issues.  There are also issues concerning the preservation
of the little accounts by which subscribers manage their subscriptions. This might be minimal,
as in the case of Apache public lists where it is completely user controlled based on e-mail
verification.  If the administrative addresses and archive locations of these lists change,
there should be warning to the lists with instructions about how to use the new interface,
opt out, etc.  Depending on how dramatic the change, we will have to be prepared for a deluge
of unsubscribe requests and list difficulty reports in a variety of languages.
> We need to be clear about the use cases and the importance of whatever preservation is
provided before we worry about how much there may be common bits in the solutions that we

I think that all existing OOo MLs should be forwarded to a real AOOo ML in a many to few arrangement.
This should be permanent. You never know when someone will find the address in an archive
somewhere and send an email to it.


> - Dennis  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Fisher [] 
> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 12:18
> To:
> Subject: [Discuss] ASF hosted email service [Was: Re: [Discussion]]
> Changing the subject as requested by Daniel
> On Aug 20, 2011, at 10:52 AM, Shane Curcuru wrote:
>> On 8/19/2011 4:58 PM, TJ Frazier wrote:
>>> Hi, Dave
>>> On 8/19/2011 13:48, Dave Fisher wrote:
>>>> On Aug 19, 2011, at 10:30 AM, Mathias Bauer wrote:
>>> [snip]
>>>>> The mail addresses OTOH should be preserved. They
>>>>> are only forwarding addresses now and they can be kept that way,
>>>>> can't they?
>>>> Not sure about it. There are considerations.
>>>> (1) How do we get the forwarding data from Oracle? Is it legal to
>>>> transfer the list, or is it required?
>>>> (2) Will the ASF host this forwarding on the normal mail
>>>> servers
>>>> (3) Who on the OOO PPMC will handle the daily administration of these
>>>> forwarders as individual email addresses change?
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Dave
>>> For (1) and (3): the addresses are part of the account with OO.o. The
>>> forwarding address is the user's registered (verified) email address for
>>> the account. Accordingly, the info will be transferred with the account
>>> data, and is administered (for changes) by the user.
>>> (2) Can't really say if ASF can/will forward. Why not?
>> Currently, ASF infra provides mail forwarding and sending capability for committers,
but no-one else.  Committers are people who have shown clear merit (i.e. they've been voted
in by one of our project communities) and also have signed an iCLA, so we have some sort of
relationship with them.
>> Personally, I would not envision allowing any new me@oo.o email addresses to be created,
unless they're for committers (who should probably use an id instead).  I don't
quite know what to do with the many existing aliases, however.  Short term we certainly can
keep them (seem useful to people) but long term we would indeed need to see how 1) infra would
support it, and 2) how the future PMC would provide oversight and manage any account issues
(oh, yeah, that's your (3) above.
> How would Infra support email forwarding for the domain? Would there be
a text or xml file with a forwarding map in svn somewhere? Would all the email automatically
go through spamassassin before forwarding?
> If we had a single mapping then we can include redirection for all of the 100s of current
OOo MLs into the several AOOo MLs along with the many individual emails.
> Regards,
> Dave
>> - Shane

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