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From Rob Weir <>
Subject Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + (was branding)
Date Tue, 02 Aug 2011 13:40:08 GMT
On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 9:00 AM, TerryE <> wrote:
> <snip>
>> Regardless... it doesn't matter to me anymore.  I'm stepping out of
>> this discussion now, and stepping away from anything to do with OOo
>> documentation, including the OOo Wiki.
>> Clayton
> This was the outcome of an ill considered discussion.  Clayton, is the one
> guy who really understands how the documentation is put together.  He's been
> working full time on this for at least 5 years that I know of.  He was
> kicked in the teeth by Oracle, albeit for ration if perhaps impersonal
> commercial drivers, and now has to consider his future options.  Despite
> this and somewhat to my surprise he was willing to re-engage and support OOo
> in the future within Apache.  His departure would truly be a loss to the
> project and one that I think we all should regret.
> In my naiveté I did get the impression that the project would be a flat
> consensual collaborative organisation rather than a hierarchical dictat,
> albeit with the Apache umbrella.   OK, I fully accept that I don't
> understand the "Apache way" yet, but in my days in EDS I had technical
> oversight in taking over many account teams and ensuring continuity of
> service (most far larger than this project) as well as running large teams
> myself.  I have no interest in shovelling this shit in future but I do know
> how to get the team to vanish like sand through your fingers.  One sure way
> is not to listen to considered and rational experience, to ride roughshod
> over peoples input, and to use sarcasm as a tool in sensitive dialogue.
>  These people are volunteers contributing pro-bono, not servants.  If this
> is going to be the culture of this project, then it is going to wither and
> die.

By your strong reaction, Terry, after only being on the list for 2
days, I suspect that you are not yet accustomed to the way we are
debating.  No one is shutting anything down.  We're discussing.  When
there is consensus then we move forward.

Decision making at Apache is described here:

It is a good read.  In particular I see nothing about trying to force
decisions by threatening to leave the project.  But maybe I missed
that line ;-)

And remember experience at OOo is not the sole fons et origo of
wisdom.  There are other sources of relevant knowledge and experience.
 We should try to respect all views raised on this list, and not try
to close down arguments by saying, "That's the way we always did it at
OOo" or "I'm more experienced in doing things my way, therefore
everyone else should yield".  Those are not ways to reach consensus.
Similarly, there are parts of Apache that are non-negotiable and areas
where we have some discretion in the project.  The Apache 2.0 license
is an example of something that is non-negotiable.



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