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From Rob Weir <>
Subject Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + (was branding)
Date Mon, 01 Aug 2011 22:43:18 GMT
On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:09 PM, C <> wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 23:46, Rob Weir <> wrote:
>> Another key question is that of accounts.  Who will have write access
>> to the wiki?
>> 1) We preserve the accounts of the Oracle-hosted server and anyone who
>> has an account there has one at Apache?
> The accounts take up little "room" and are simply part of the OOoWiki
> backend.. not linked to any external LDAP.  Should they be...
> probably.  It would certainly be a nice to have if we could link the
> OOo Accounts to the main OOo accounts.. one log in for all bits of
> OOo.
> As an aside, there are more than 10k (probably more like 20k) of what
> I call zombie accounts, accounts that are more than 2 years old and
> never been used to edit a page, and never even logged into after they
> were created.  A huge number of the zombie accounts are created by
> spammers.... it wouldn't be a bad thing if we purged the unused
> accounts, but it's not necessary.

If you have 20,000 zombie accounts then I think that is a serious
argument for disabling all the existing accounts and starting fresh,
with controlled access.

>> 2) We start fresh and allow anyone to sign up?
> How do you preserve the existing content and the continuity of the
> previous editors' work of you do that?  If you start fresh, you no
> longer have any contributor history on the existing content.

Don't delete content.  Just disable accounts.  If someone had one user
id back in 1999 and get a different one today, is that the end of the
world?  If it is to many people, then we can either delete all
accounts and let project members get the accounts of their choice, or
we can reactive disabled accounts on request.

>> 3) We hook it up to Apache's LDAP, and only allow project committers
>> to write to the wiki?
> That doesn't make it much of a community project.  The whole point of
> a Wiki is to allow anyone to edit and add content.  Parts of the

We don't allow everyone to change the code in the repositories.  We
don't allow everyone to directly edit the project's website.  The fact
that there is a community does not mean that we allow 20,000 people,
including spammers, to have accounts and give them the ability to edit
all resources.

There is certainly a good reason to have a community wiki, that anyone
can edit.  There are also good reasons to have a development wiki that
only committers can edit.  We have both of them today.
did not make that distinction.  Apache does.  We'll need to decide
what bucket the OOo wiki fits into.  But from my examination I see
that there are parts that should have community write access, but
there are parts that should not.

> Documentation for example has been added by people who were not
> associated directly with the Doc project, (see
> for an example) and their contributions are pretty important.  Another

Receiving contributions from contributors, reviewing them and merging
them into the project, this is a key function of any healthy Apache
project.  Committers need to step up and help contributors get their
contributions merged in.  And if the number and frequency of
contributions from a contributor is so high that it is annoying to be
always processing their patches, then it is a good sign that that
contributor should be voted in as a Committer !

> group that I haven't seen represented here on the Incubators list is a
> subset of the Russian OOo community that have created a massive
> documentation structure on the Wiki over the past 2 years or so (see
> for some info on this).  I don't think they would be contributing
> their knowledge if we made them apply for and become Apache project
> committers... but maybe I'm too cynical.

I am more interested in enabling those who are committed to the
project to work effectively within the project.  The PPMC cannot
exercise any oversight over a Russian language wiki edited by unknown
persons who have not signed the iCLA and have not signed up and active
on this list.

All things are possible to those who join the project.  The same
cannot be promised to those who do not join.

>> I think this boils down to:  is this a project wiki with project work
>> in it?  Or is it a community wiki?  What do we need to ensure that the
>> PPMC has oversight of project outputs and that our users have the
>> rights they think they have to those outputs, which is to say, that
>> new content remains under Apache 2.0?
> The OOo Wiki, as it is now, is a Community Wiki.  It contains pages
> created by the projects for project use,  pages created by the
> projects for users, and pages created by users for users.  Some is old
> and could/should be trimmed out, but... there is also some very
> valuable and important information tucked away in the Wiki.

It is more accurate to say that OOo did not make a distinction here
between a project wiki and a community wiki.

> C.

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