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From Shane Curcuru <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Marketing Team
Date Mon, 17 Oct 2011 13:28:33 GMT

On 10/17/2011 4:04 AM, Ian Lynch wrote:
> On 17 October 2011 00:17, Shane Curcuru<>  wrote:
>> This is a specific issue that is important to understand:
>> On 10/16/2011 5:25 PM, Ian Lynch wrote:


>>   Projects are certainly welcome to get the word out about the ASF and about
>> their work - we love our projects that do the extra work to clearly
>> articulate their software and their ideas to the world.  But any fundraising
>> activities by projects need to be for the ASF overall, and cannot be just
>> for the project.
> I fully understand this which is why I'm not proposing making the
> fundraising bit part of Apache. However, I don't see any legal reason why
> marketing volunteers in the PPMC could not voluntarily take part in
> something outside Apache while still taking an interest in Apache. Keep the
> finance outside but transparent. If there is a mechanism preferred for
> keeping funding in the general Apache pot then do it that way.

The Apache way is for projects to come up with specific needs in a 
consensus-based way within the (P)PMC, and then petition infra@ or the 
board@ for a way to meet those needs.

There's certainly no prohibitions on committers doing activities outside 
of Apache!  We certainly understand that a large part of the work in our 
projects comes from employees at their $dayjob, from consultants who 
have outside companies, from trainers who run classes based on our 
products.  Many of those activities are indeed a happy conjunction of 
contributing freely to Apache projects and using that 
experience/expertise to make money for yourself/your company elsewhere.

However any outside activities must be clearly branded to be your own, 
and not endorsed or affiliated with the ASF or AOOo.

>> Thinking about it another way: why does the AOOo project need to make
>> money?   Really - what needs does the AOOo project have that the ASF is not
>> / does not appear to be handling?
> Why does anyone need money? Marketing costs money to even seed things like
> T-shirts, travel to conferences etc. In the past we have even struggled to
> take CDs to shows for the sake of small amounts of money. If you are saying
> Apache is awash with funds and can finance all these things directly.....
>   The mechanism for getting the money into the project is not so important,
> but money is a resource, just like volunteers so the more of it we have the
> better.

Conference travel is something we have covered, although the guidelines 
may be a little different from what you're talking about:

T-shirts are often provided (for other projects that have them) by third 
party corporations coming to our conferences, or by PMC members printing 
shirts individually for fellow committers (at cost or free).

Why do we need so many CDs?  That is an area I could see being 
fundamentally different because of being an end user product, however I 
still don't understand the specific reasons they are so important here.

Note: IMO, this is definitely a different kind of attitude than any 
other Apache project.  In many cases, the projects do not do anywhere 
near this level of active marketing.  In the rest of the cases, these 
kinds of activities are effectively handled by third parties - i.e. 
other companies who ship versions of our software.  They usually want to 
show an association to our brands, and thus end up promoting our brands 
along with their own (at least to most of the target markets they deal 
with - which is probably different than end user products).

- Shane

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