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From Alexandro Colorado <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Marketing Team
Date Mon, 17 Oct 2011 14:21:49 GMT
On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 8:46 AM, Shane Curcuru <> wrote:

> On 10/16/2011 6:01 PM, Graham Lauder wrote:
>> On 10/15/11, Dave Fisher<>  wrote:
> ...snip...
>  - Brand Manager. Dedicated to the OOo brand.
>> A whole Marketing team task pretty much, a dedicated individual could
>> get swamped.
>>  I think that is a little confusion sometimes with the seemingly
>> hierarchical nature of legacy OOo projects.  Yes each project had a
>> “lead” and a “co-lead”, the terms however were somewhat misleading. A
>> more accurate description would be an administrator. It is true that
>> closer to the core code there was a more “managed” process simply
>> because of the corporate heirarchy active in Hamburg and even that had
>> flattened out over the life of the project.  The “Lead” simply had
>> access to the admin tools, he certainly did not dictate policy or
>> direction, that was generally the result of discussion and consensus.
>> Branding is simply part of the wider marketing strategy and branding
>> right now is what should be our primary marketing focus and a group
>> task.  Decisions have to be made.
>> So I'm with Ross on this, we have some excellent people to make up the
>> team, those people will each take the lead on whatever task they feel
>> that they can contribute best. Really that's not a lot different to
>> the way the old OOo marketing project used to function in any case and
>> what made it so successful.
> That's good to hear, because I've been trying to figure out how to explain
> Apache styles of working together, especially to contrast them to the past
> OOo world.  From what I can understand of it, the old organizational style -
> of many separate groups, each with leaders, co-leads, managers, whatever -
> is very much the opposite of Apache best practices.
> I would urge people to think of the new "Marketing team" as something very
> new, and focus on where we all want to take AOOo.  Personally, it really
> started to worry me when people call it the "Marketing team", but maybe
> that's just me.
> Apache projects do need leaders.  But leader isn't at title in an Apache
> project.  Leadership is more about what you do and how you encourage others
> to follow, rather than directing others or simply doing it all yourself.

I am not sure how to interpret this, I mean Leaders in OOo were that
exactly, both ideas are not exclusive of one another. Leads get form by
ideas and enterprises, and they get the 'lead title'.

I think ASF thinks of leads as a philosophy while OOo thought of it as a
Philosophy + Strucutre. Which brings my real questions about how to do with
structure. Then we can draw a real difference between both worlds.  This
goes back to my 'vision' statement previously on this discussion.

> Justin Eerenkrantz has it exactly right in his "ASF: No Jerks Allowed"
> presentation, as do many other ASF'ers who give Apache Way talks:
>    Whomever has the best idea “leads”
>    ...until a better idea is presented to the group
>    and then that person “leads”
> Leadership in Apache projects is getting the community excited and willing
> to help work on your idea.  And being willing to listen to other
> perspectives, and to work with the whole community to improve the project
> for the project's sake.

A thing here that I would come to question is how people take this 'whole
community'. OOo was not a unique community because of many reasons. The most
basic one was the language barrier, then you have project specific
initiatives. So for example, Extension development vs Core development vs
ODF/XML discussions, they had their own mailing list for such topics.

Also the amount of issues and communication demanded the segmentation of
such things, sometimes segmentation was abused and we got up to 9 different
mailing list in the marketing project at one point, creating too much

So first thing is how to make this work with just a few ML where gets
discussed everything from soup to nuts.
Then is the people who will handle the rudimentary tasks like moderation,
project/section announcements/reporting and even "cheerleading" activities
you just mentioned. Again those titles gave a structure, if ASF don't manage
any titles I would like to see how *internal* structure are being handled?

> - Shane
> P.S. And as always: PMCs need to manage their projects independently of
> outside influence.  This PPMC is the body that's in charge of the future of
> the AOOo project - no one else.  There are a few legal, branding, and
> organizational details that the board (thru the Apache Incubator in a
> podling's case) requires of Apache projects - but technical direction is
> solely handled by this PPMC.
> P.P.S. +1 for an ooo-marketing@ list, I'll be on it.

*Alexandro Colorado*
** Español
fingerprint: E62B CF77 1BEA 0749 C0B8 50B9 3DE6 A84A 68D0 72E6

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