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From Louis Suárez-Potts <>
Subject Re: [WWW][Policy] Rewriting
Date Fri, 18 Nov 2011 23:23:28 GMT
More shortly—have been in meetings galore for the last day… now
staking tock of my shelved reeds.


On 18 November 2011 12:36, Kay Schenk <> wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Rob Weir <> wrote:
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Dave Fisher <>
>> wrote:
>> > Hi All,
>> >
>> > There are several parts to the migration of website. One
>> area that needs attention is rewriting to fit
>> ASF and AOO policies. (Policies may need to be written and discussed.)
>> >
>> > On the current main page, contributing is accessed
>> from the fifth button - "I want to participate in"
>> >
>> > Volunteers are needed to take leadership of and contribute to this
>> rewrite. Any committer can do this work.
>> >
>> > I suggest that a directory be created within the podling site called
>> "contributing". Within that directory there should be an index.mdtext and
>> as many subpages as required. Once completed, I can do an svn copy or move
>> to the ooo-site tree.
>> >
>> Before actually doing the work, let me propose a radical
>> simplification.  AOO is organizationally flat, so we don't have all
>> the destination sub-projects of the legacy OOo website.
>> 1) The "I want to participate" link on the main page goes to a single
>> new page.  No need to be at  In fact, I
>> think I'd avoid that since to participate != to contribute.
> Rob--
> I'm not following you here. It's true that of course we are not going to
> follow the former "project" hierarchy (lucky for use the "Projects" tab is
> now gone on the setup site) that existed within, but I'm not
> understanding what you’re trying to say about the existing "participate "
> link on the home page that transfers to  contributing.html.
> In the legacy OOo sense, the "participate" link jumped to a "contribute"
> page, contribute.html,  which listed a few ways to contribute/participate,
> so in this sense, I think it meant the same thing (?).
> I think you are making a distinction between participating and contributing
> (?) based on ???? actual participation -- coding, etc -- vs monetary
> contributions?
>> 2) The new page has a simple couple of paragraphs.  We welcome
>> volunteers of all sorts.  These are the functional areas where we need
>> help (taken from those already listed).  If you want more information
>> you can browser our project website (the podling site)  here, or send
>> a note to our project list at ooo-dev.i.a.o.
> OK, in this sense, perhaps the existing contributing.html can be used with
> changes.
> Again, I'm confused about your initial distinctions I guess.

I pretty much did the initial draft of the page and set the logic of
what counted as "participate" and "contribute".  And I was raked over
the coals by the United Developers of the World who critiqued my
conflation of any old contribution with sophisticated development.
Point taken, they were right, I was wrong, but the point was to grow
the project and to thus justify its existence. Development would come,
once the market was established.

So now we are here. What do we want out of this? Do we want to re-do
the strategy of yore and expand the market?

I'd say, we've done that and we need now to focus on sophisticated
development while encouraging and providing space for regular
contributions; participations—however defined but mostly likely along
the lines of, "using" and "expressing like" and so on and throwing a)
parties and b) competitors' stuff out the window—also strongly

But our focus here, if I am not incorrect, is development, yes?

That leaves open the problem—or delight—of working with the, uhm, 99
percent who like OOo but are not developers :-) On OOo, we created a
slew of such projects to encourage their participation, as evangelism
is important, and as OOo is fairly unique—or was—in that it was

However, I'd submit that it's not Apache's remit to work with this
crowdsource but rather just the source. And so accordingly, the
opening is for other satellite organizations that would be entrusted
to use the trademark (be approved by Apache or its delegate) and
further develop the limitless regional and also cloudy communities.

That all said, the text should be rewritten to focus on development
(as Rob wrote) and to then suggest a wiki (or so) for other sorts of
valuable contributions. (I persist in believing that in a real open
source endeavour, the democratic if not entirely meritocratic (how to
judge? even pragmatics fail us here) participatory urges that make OOo
(and its spawn) so great.

>> I would not advise them to subscribe initially.  Depending on what
>> they are interested in we might point them to a specific list
>> (ooo-marketing) or to the forums.  I think the full ooo-dev list can
>> be overwhelming for newbies.
>> With this approach, the PPMC would be responsible for following up on
>> these incoming volunteer notices and helping to orient the new
>> volunteers.  In a sense we would become mini-mentors.
>> As for the fundraising link, I don't know where to put that.  I
>> certainly would not expect to see it behind a "I want to participate"
>> link.  Maybe a new tab labeled "Contribute" and then have that link to
>> the relevant Apache page?

I'd also also like for the fundraising to be clearly identified with
the project. Right now, we use SPI and—not sure if "still" is
relevant—Team OOo. (It probably is not; and probably a foundation or
more humble and simpler bank account possessed of a humanoid
treasurer, would be sufficient and even gooder.)

>> -Rob
>> > The reason I suggest doing the work on the podling site is due to hidden
>> overhead when using the Apache CMS Bookmarklet. Each user does a complete
>> checkout of a site's tree. The podling site is small and the ooo-site is
>> very huge. Using the podling site will be much more satisfying for
>> volunteers.
>> >
>> > HTH, but I also have a full time job...
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Dave

> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MzK
> "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged
>  by the way its animals are treated."
>                              -- Mohandas Gandhi

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