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From Joe Schaefer <>
Subject Re: On parks, commons, and websites... and fun (or lack of)
Date Tue, 17 Jul 2012 21:01:59 GMT

I trust you reserve this behavior for this mailing list and
do not subject forum participants to the pack-animal behavior
you've been exhibiting here lately.  The biggest concern I have
here with forum participants on this list is how their behavior
here translates to their conduct in the forums- I hope we would
havegotten wind of it by now if this were commonplace over there.
Hagar was brought in to help ensure PPMC oversight over that activity;
if he steps down I'm not sure who should replace him.

----- Original Message -----
> From: Larry Gusaas <>
> To:
> Cc: 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 4:54 PM
> Subject: Re: On parks, commons, and websites... and fun (or lack of)
> On 2012-07-17 2:38 PM Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>>  ________________________________
>>>  From: Hagar Delest <>
>>>  To:
>>>  Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 4:10 PM
>>>  Subject: Re: On parks, commons, and websites... and fun (or lack of)
>>>  Let's be clear: I don't have the desire to take the effort to 
> do such thing.
>>>  I volunteer to this project on my free time because I like it. But the 
> deal
>>>  is that I've to like it. I give my time to help users because I 
> find some
>>>  fun in it.
>>>  So I won't engage in things that bore me. If you can't 
> understand this simple
>>>  fact, there is no point discussing further.
>>  Yes you've made that abundantly clear that you find website work boring 
> and
>>  beneath you.  As I've tried to make clear to you, people here who do 
> that
>>  sort of work on your behalf or provide you with the tools to make that work
>>  less boring for you will often find your attitude insulting and degrading 
> and
>>  yes unfun.  Others won't mind in the least.  Such is life.
>>>  If I had not the committer status, would you have asked me to do it 
> myself too?
>>  Of course I would. Had you been paying attention you would have realized 
> that.
>>>  I think not. And again, I'm a committer only because I accepted to 
> report for
>>>  the forums on the blog (meaning a new account to handle, a new tool and 
> a new responsibility).
>>  Committer status has nothing to do with blog credentials.
>>>  Which is something that I don't greatly enjoy.
>>>  I accepted the ASF invitation to get more involved in AOO because I 
> thought there
>>>  would be some interesting development for the future of AOO and it 
> could be fun to
>>>  contribute to it. But if it means being bashed like that (thinking it 
> would be a good
>>  thing to report a problem), then no way. You've taken the fun out of 
> it.
>>  I haven't attacked you not a single time; I'm not bashing you 
> either.  I have
>>  challenged you to increase your level of contribution to this project to 
> match
>>  the expectations of the other participants and committers on this mailing 
> list.
>>  Having said no there's no penalty to pay- nobody's going to strip 
> your karma
>>  for not trying.  The worst thing that will likely happen to you are the 
> usual
>>  social consequences of not meeting the expectations of many of your peers, 
> which
>>  may not bother you either.  Different strokes for different folks- there is 
> no
>>  need for further drama here.
> Your attacks on Hagar have been insulting and demeaning. Your use of language is 
> insulting, 
> despite your claims otherwise. You need to learn how to encourage people.
> Hagar was a very valuable member of this project. Your mean spirited attacks 
> have caused him to 
> resign.
> Congratulations on the wonderful job you are doing as a mentor. Not.
> -- 
> _________________________________
> Larry I. Gusaas
> Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
> Website:
> "An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind 
> theirs." - Edgard Varese

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