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From Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>
Subject Re: Translation for AOO 4.0
Date Fri, 26 Apr 2013 22:18:48 GMT
Guys,

http://openoffice.apache.org/list-conduct.html

And if you are posting so many times in a single thread then I wonder if the purpose is immolation
or what? The oxygen is certainly sucked out of what is an important decision - the community
decision about releasing and when.

We should go with what we have when we are ready and certain things as in ANY software release
- corporate, commercial, or whatever - will need to go to the backlog.

Tomorrow is another day and there will always be another thread.

Thanks JanI - your many efforts and enthusiasm are appreciated, but when times are brittle
take a break. I've there myself on many occasions.

Thanks Rob your position is well moderated and intelligent, no need to have the last word.
Sometimes it is good to let others articulate your position for you.

Peace and enjoy your weekends!

Best Regards,
Dave  

On Apr 26, 2013, at 1:24 PM, Rob Weir wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 3:39 PM, janI <jani@apache.org> wrote:
>> On 26 April 2013 20:42, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 2:10 PM, janI <jani@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> On 26 April 2013 18:52, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 12:45 PM, Claudio Filho <filhocf@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Em 26/04/2013 12:13, "janI" <jani@apache.org> escreveu:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> for the record, this was not what I said....I simply believe
that a
>>>>>>> feature without help (and documentation) is not complete and
if
>>> released
>>>>>>> should be highlighted because our average user depend on help
in many
>>>>>>> situations.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Only to give an out perspective, this "highlighted" can return against
>>>>> we,
>>>>>> as a incomplete or immature development.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Imho, an important feature of aoo project is its concern in bring
and
>>>>>> deliver a product with high quality. So, the PoV of Ariel and Jan
are
>>>>> solid.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Then all the more reason for someone who cares to enter an issue into
>>>>> BZ for this.  Don't you agree?
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I have not seen BZ yet for problems/shortcomming with new features in
>>>> development (e.g. where are the detailed outstandings of IA2, jsc 3 layer
>>>> change etc). The help/documentation issue is part of the general sidebar
>>>> development, but of course  we can make one big extra BZ for the 4.0
>>>> release just to please the administrative overhead.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Actually, we just completed a test pass of the Sidebar, a "new
>>> feature", and 65 new defects reports are in BZ.   We use Bugzilla for
>>> tracking these things, even for new features.  Once the developers
>>> have integrated the code into the trunk, posted a build and asked for
>>> testing to begin, then we use BZ for tracking issues.
>>> 
>>>> making BZ for problems/missing with ongoing development is highly
>>>> problematic, I could f.x. make about 10 BZ for genLang, and I am pretty
>>>> sure the sidebar developers/documenters/testers could make about at least
>>>> 100 BZ if they wanted to. It would simply flood BZ, make real problems
>>>> harder to spot, and put an extra burden on the people doing the work.  I
>>>> f.x. have a simply list with my outstandings,which is quite normal during
>>>> the development/initial test phase.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> genLang isn't checked into the trunk, a build posted and a call for
>>> testing started, right?  See the difference?
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> making a special BZ for this issue, is in my opinion just an
>>> administrativ
>>>> trix, it does not change 1 millimeter about the fact, that we have both a
>>>> challenge. And also I dont understand why you separate this issue from
>>> all
>>>> the other open issues with sidebar.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> I don''t see why you are separating this issue from all the other
>>> sidebar issues, which are, as I indicate, in BZ already.
>>> 
>>>> We should be focussing a lot more on solving our challenges !!
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> And one way you can help is to enter issues with integrated features
>>> into Bugzilla.  Though obviously you are just refusing, for
>>> stubbornness sake to do this. At this point I'm pretty sure if I
>>> suggested you should drink water you would rather go thirsty than do
>>> something that I suggested.  So be it...
>>> 
>> 
>> may I politely suggest we keep a moderate tone on this list...I hope I did
>> not write anything personal against anybody !
>> 
>> I you want to be personal, it should be kept off-list....but I surdenly
>> understand when I am unwanted. I will take proper action.
>> 
> 
> Jan, I intended no personal attack.  I'm just making the observation
> that IMHO (and I'm entitled to opinions as well, yes?) the discussion
> is going nowhere, that to me it appears that you are entrenched in
> your views, and that I believe the easiest way to move this ahead is
> for me to just enter your issue into BZ myself, which I have now done:
> 
> https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=122175
> 
> -Rob
> 
> 
>> rgds.
>> Jan I.
>> 
>>> 
>>>> Discussing whether or not help is  integrated after both developers and
>>>> documenters have told it is not, or whether or not a BZ should be filled
>>>> out are not positive for the process or for our community.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> I agree that discussing it is silly.  You should just enter the issue
>>> and BZ and stop talking about it.
>>> 
>>> -Rob
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> This is of course my private meaning, but we have a real tendency at the
>>>> moment to discuss the administrative surrounding and not the kernel
>>> issues.
>>>> I do not understand, why that is, but I strongly believe it signals
>>>> something negative.
>>>> 
>>>> Lets try to focus on the problems, make solutions...not administrative
>>>> stoppers, any objections to that ?
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Focus
>>> 
>>>> rgds
>>>> Jan I.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Rob
>>>>> 
>>>>>> My 2 ยข
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Claudio
>>>>> 
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