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From Jürgen Schmidt <jogischm...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Translation for AOO 4.0
Date Fri, 26 Apr 2013 18:41:25 GMT
On 4/26/13 8:10 PM, janI wrote:
> On 26 April 2013 18:52, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 12:45 PM, Claudio Filho <filhocf@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Em 26/04/2013 12:13, "janI" <jani@apache.org> escreveu:
>>>
>>>>> for the record, this was not what I said....I simply believe that a
>>>> feature without help (and documentation) is not complete and if released
>>>> should be highlighted because our average user depend on help in many
>>>> situations.
>>>
>>> Only to give an out perspective, this "highlighted" can return against
>> we,
>>> as a incomplete or immature development.
>>>
>>> Imho, an important feature of aoo project is its concern in bring and
>>> deliver a product with high quality. So, the PoV of Ariel and Jan are
>> solid.
>>>
>>
>> Then all the more reason for someone who cares to enter an issue into
>> BZ for this.  Don't you agree?
>>
> 
> I have not seen BZ yet for problems/shortcomming with new features in
> development (e.g. where are the detailed outstandings of IA2, jsc 3 layer
> change etc). The help/documentation issue is part of the general sidebar
> development, but of course  we can make one big extra BZ for the 4.0
> release just to please the administrative overhead.

well I had at least one issue for my 3 layer work and got a second one
for a problem that I introduced. I will create more top finish the SDK
adoption. An of course I would prefer indeed issues for all many more
changes.

> 
> making BZ for problems/missing with ongoing development is highly
> problematic, I could f.x. make about 10 BZ for genLang, and I am pretty
> sure the sidebar developers/documenters/testers could make about at least
> 100 BZ if they wanted to. It would simply flood BZ, make real problems
> harder to spot, and put an extra burden on the people doing the work.  I
> f.x. have a simply list with my outstandings,which is quite normal during
> the development/initial test phase.
we have indeed many issues now for the sidebar to document the problems.
Problems from very trivial to more complex and not easy to solve.
Missing help is of course one that should be tracked with an issue. As
release manager I will of course not accept it as showstopper if we have
no issue. And even then it has to be discussed.

We had again a lot of discussion and nobody started to solve the
problem. I have at least tried to collect some info about the format and
the tooling. And Ariel provided a patch that will help with extended
tooltips. But nobody started work on a help file so far.

If somebody will veto the release because of a missing help file you can
be sure that I will never ever acting as release manager again.

And yes it would be missing and it should be fixed, we all agree but it
is not stopper issue. We have much more serious problems that we have to
fix before.

> 
> making a special BZ for this issue, is in my opinion just an administrativ
> trix, it does not change 1 millimeter about the fact, that we have both a
> challenge. And also I dont understand why you separate this issue from all
> the other open issues with sidebar.

I really don't see a separation here, it's simply one more issue
regarding the sidebar.

> 
> We should be focussing a lot more on solving our challenges !!

exactly and I don't see that here

> 
> Discussing whether or not help is  integrated after both developers and
> documenters have told it is not, or whether or not a BZ should be filled
> out are not positive for the process or for our community.
> 
> This is of course my private meaning, but we have a real tendency at the
> moment to discuss the administrative surrounding and not the kernel issues.
> I do not understand, why that is, but I strongly believe it signals
> something negative.

bring your concerns on the table and describe it clearly that we all can
understand exactly what you mean. It is better to start the discussion now.


> 
> Lets try to focus on the problems, make solutions...not administrative
> stoppers, any objections to that ?

an issue for this problem is quite normal and the solution is to start
working on it. Quite easy from my pint of view.

Juergen

> 
> rgds
> Jan I.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>> My 2 ¢
>>>
>>> Claudio
>>
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>>
> 


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