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From Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>
Subject Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo
Date Fri, 05 Apr 2013 20:07:23 GMT

On Apr 5, 2013, at 8:02 AM, janI wrote:

> On 5 April 2013 16:52, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:37 AM, janI <jani@apache.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 5 April 2013 14:50, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 3:33 AM, Jürgen Schmidt <jogischmidt@gmail.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 4/5/13 6:01 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Everyone,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Can I propose we move forward with this logo:
>>>> http://imagebin.org/252847
>>>>>> I kept the current official blue for both the logo and word 'Open'
>> in
>>>> the
>>>>>> wordmark because the word 'Open' gets less emphasis with the
>> lighter
>>>>> blue.
>>>>>> I also gave the text Apache a placement inside the valley made by
>> the
>>>> two
>>>>>> O's as many people's designs had suggested.
>>>>>> The font is Roboto Condensed which is Apache 2.0 Licensed.
>>>>> 
>>>>> mmh, I don't think that it would be a good approach if we simply move
>>>>> forward with this one. We collected several proposals over weeks now
>>> and
>>>>> it is still not easy to pick the serious ones.
>>>>> 
>>>>> We should summarize what we have, maybe drop the obvious bad ones and
>>>>> start a first vote. the 3 best voted proposals will be reviewed in
>> more
>>>>> detail if they fulfill our requirements and if we can appropriate
>>>>> further brand elements like icons, app icon, etc.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> Maybe call the initial thing a "poll" rather than a "vote".  It is a
>> form
>>>> of testing, really, gathering feedback in a structured way.  But it is
>>> not
>>>> a decision-making process.  We could put the top 3 into a blog post and
>>>> gather feedback and preferences on blog, mailing list, facebook, etc.
>>>> We'll also get 'expert opinion' from those who understand logos well.
>>> This
>>>> all gives the PMC some solid information, from community members,
>> users,
>>>> experts, etc., to make a final decision.  Ideally these sources concur
>> on
>>>> their preferences.  But there might be divergent views.  But the PMC
>>>> decides in the end.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> I have lost the overview of how many logos are in competition, since it
>> do
>>> not follow this theme intensively. I have seen at least one I really
>> liked,
>>> but to fair I think we should make one page (mwiki/cwiki or something
>> else)
>>> where everybody can see the competing logos side by side. The logos
>> should
>>> each be structured as Web-logo, software-logo and favicon (many seems to
>>> forget this important part). With such a page the community can give
>> their
>>> opinion (I agree with rob, no vote just a poll), and the 3 best, go in a
>>> second round, and of course pmc officially decide, but I am pretty sure
>>> they will follow the opinion of the community.
>>> 
>>> I personally would not take the 3 best to a blog/facebook etc....this is
>>> "our" product, and we the community decide how to present it to the
>>> end-users.
>>> 
>>> 
>> I think of the Facebook thing would be more a poll then a decision making
>> process.  It is another source of info.  As a PMC member, the more data I
>> have to help make decisions the better.  I'd weigh heavily community
>> opinion on our mailing lists, but I'd also be interesting in taking the
>> pulse of ordinary users who are seeing these things for the first time with
>> a fresh perspecitve,  as well as the opinions of experts.  It is all data.
>> It is all good.
>> 
>> It is "our" product, yes, but the logo is not for our private adoration.
>> It is functional, in the sense that its distinctiveness and recognizably is
>> as important as its aesthetics.  Personally, to make up my mind, I need to
>> have feedback on how "outsiders" see and mentally process the logo, and not
>> just how project "insiders" see it.  I think it needs to work well for all.
>> 
> 
> Point taken, now I understand your view better and agree with it. But I
> would still like to see all logos on a single page in the 3 variants, that
> would help me and others make up our minds, and give you as PMC better
> input.

All logos on a new wiki page. If a designer wants to remove some of their designs from consideration
now would be the time.

I agree with having a poll. Keep track of the source of each set of results.

Interpret the poll here on the list. If there is no consensus on the best choice then we have
a vote. If there are more than 2 possible best choices we can use a ranked choice voting method.

Seems like a plan.

Would be something to start next week. Maybe Tuesday?

Regards,
Dave

> 
> rgds
> jan I.
> 
> 
>> -Rob
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Rgds
>>> Jan I.
>>> 
>>> -Rob
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Then start the final vote.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just my opinion
>>>>> 
>>>>> Juergen
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The source file is an SVG created in Inkscape. The above is a png
>>>> export.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Samer
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Samer Mansour <samer519@gmail.com
>>> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I will wait a few more days but it sounds like the group will
be
>>> able
>>>> to
>>>>>>> come to a consensus on refreshing the orb in some way or another.
>>> We
>>>>> can
>>>>>>> proceed with finalizing this logo proposal if no one objectifies.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Samer
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Kadal Amutham <vkadal@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> A flat logo may be good for  Pepsi, Domino's, Microsoft,
Skype,
>>>> Twitter
>>>>>>>> since they have money power to promote. What AOO needs is
a good
>>>>> looking
>>>>>>>> logo
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> With Warm Regards
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> V.Kadal Amutham
>>>>>>>> 919444360480
>>>>>>>> 914422396480
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 30 March 2013 18:17, Juergen Schmidt <jogischmidt@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Am Samstag, 30. März 2013 um 03:05 schrieb Alexandro
Colorado:
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/29/13, Robin Fowler <robin.fowler@outlook.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Due to the opinions I've seen so far I've decided
to make a
>> new
>>>>>>>> design:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27846912/OO_4_final_design_Robin-Fowler.jpg?version=1&modificationDate=1364582663662
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Here is a tweak, without the orb. Looks pretty olympic.
>>>>>>>>>> http://imagebin.org/252139
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> maybe I am confused but I thought that we want something
like
>> the
>>>> orb
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> can be used standalone with the name. For ample for buttons,
>>>> stickers
>>>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Juergen
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Overall it has a flat look and yet still some
depth to make it
>>>> stand
>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>> from the microsoft brand. I think it is also
important to
>> think
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> form itself, the silhouette should ideally be
recognisable on
>>> its
>>>>>>>> own,
>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>> is one reason using the apache feather is a good
idea.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Some other thoughts:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> One of the problems i see with a lot of the proposals
is the
>>> lack
>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> thought
>>>>>>>>>>> given to typography. It seems the text is just
slapped on as
>> an
>>>>>>>>>>> afterthought, in many cases the 'apache' is floating
somewhere
>>>>>>>> randomly
>>>>>>>>>>> above 'openoffice'. Think of what you want the
logo to imply,
>> it
>>>>>>>>> should not
>>>>>>>>>>> look disorganised. Another thing worth pointing
out is the
>>> kerning
>>>>>>>>> (spacing
>>>>>>>>>>> between letters) which could be optimised on
some of the
>>>> proposals.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> There was a long discussion about the typography,
starting with
>>> an
>>>>>>>>>> open typography, and also a more artistic.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> This is an extremely important aspect of the
whole logo design
>>> and
>>>>>>>>> should be
>>>>>>>>>>> considered when choosing a design. After all,
many logos
>> consist
>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> nothing
>>>>>>>>>>> other than text.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I also want to say i really like Vasilis Xenofontos
design. It
>>>> might
>>>>>>>>> be too
>>>>>>>>>>> different from the current, but it's a very good
logo imo.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Robin
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 28 Mar 2013, at 12:38, Samer Mansour <samer519@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Robin brought up a good point that we should
pick a logo
>> before
>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>>>> work on the application artifacts or the
website as it will
>>>>>>>> influence
>>>>>>>>>>>> those.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I initially was excited that we could have
a new logo, an
>>>>>>>>> opportunity to
>>>>>>>>>>>> change the face of OpenOffice.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> But after I saw Chris R. proposal I convinced
myself
>> refreshing
>>>>>>>>> rather
>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>> re-branding was the better path.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> So I would like to start a conversation that
will hopefully
>>> give
>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>>>> strong
>>>>>>>>>>>> arguments to picking a logo.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I already mentioned I liked the flat logo.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Here are reasons:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> - It is very similar to the current logo
and that logo has a
>>>>>>>> history
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> being recognized.
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Flat is 'in', easily recognizable on and
works well on
>> social
>>>>>>>>>>>> platforms,
>>>>>>>>>>>> screens and print media. (Think corporate
and product logos
>> of
>>>>>>>> today,
>>>>>>>>>>>> recently Pepsi, Domino's, Microsoft, Skype,
Twitter)
>>>>>>>>>>>> - This logo can be severed from the word
mark to make it fit
>>> in a
>>>>>>>>> square
>>>>>>>>>>>> and still carry the branding image. Icons,
site, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>> - A middle ground for community members who
like the current
>>>> logo.
>>>>>>>>> Who
>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>> to achieve a new image of 4.0 without tossing
history.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Looking back, we had lots of ideas but it
only took me a
>> moment
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>> i
>>>>>>>>>>>> saw
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris r.'s proposal to realize the logo didn't
need to be
>>> complex
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> completely new. That simple was actually
beautiful.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thoughts? Agree? Disagree (and your solution
is)?
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Samer Mansour
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>> marketing-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>>>>>>>> marketing-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Alexandro Colorado
>>>>>>>>>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
>>>>>>>>>> http://es.openoffice.org
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>>> marketing-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>>>>> marketing-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 


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