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From janI <j...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Translation for AOO 4.0
Date Fri, 26 Apr 2013 19:36:26 GMT
On 26 April 2013 20:41, Jürgen Schmidt <jogischmidt@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 4/26/13 8:10 PM, janI wrote:
> > On 26 April 2013 18:52, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 12:45 PM, Claudio Filho <filhocf@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>> Hi
> >>>
> >>> Em 26/04/2013 12:13, "janI" <jani@apache.org> escreveu:
> >>>
> >>>>> for the record, this was not what I said....I simply believe that
a
> >>>> feature without help (and documentation) is not complete and if
> released
> >>>> should be highlighted because our average user depend on help in many
> >>>> situations.
> >>>
> >>> Only to give an out perspective, this "highlighted" can return against
> >> we,
> >>> as a incomplete or immature development.
> >>>
> >>> Imho, an important feature of aoo project is its concern in bring and
> >>> deliver a product with high quality. So, the PoV of Ariel and Jan are
> >> solid.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Then all the more reason for someone who cares to enter an issue into
> >> BZ for this.  Don't you agree?
> >>
> >
> > I have not seen BZ yet for problems/shortcomming with new features in
> > development (e.g. where are the detailed outstandings of IA2, jsc 3 layer
> > change etc). The help/documentation issue is part of the general sidebar
> > development, but of course  we can make one big extra BZ for the 4.0
> > release just to please the administrative overhead.
>
> well I had at least one issue for my 3 layer work and got a second one
> for a problem that I introduced. I will create more top finish the SDK
> adoption. An of course I would prefer indeed issues for all many more
> changes.
>
> >
> > making BZ for problems/missing with ongoing development is highly
> > problematic, I could f.x. make about 10 BZ for genLang, and I am pretty
> > sure the sidebar developers/documenters/testers could make about at least
> > 100 BZ if they wanted to. It would simply flood BZ, make real problems
> > harder to spot, and put an extra burden on the people doing the work.  I
> > f.x. have a simply list with my outstandings,which is quite normal during
> > the development/initial test phase.
> we have indeed many issues now for the sidebar to document the problems.
> Problems from very trivial to more complex and not easy to solve.
> Missing help is of course one that should be tracked with an issue. As
> release manager I will of course not accept it as showstopper if we have
> no issue. And even then it has to be discussed.
>
> We had again a lot of discussion and nobody started to solve the
> problem. I have at least tried to collect some info about the format and
> the tooling. And Ariel provided a patch that will help with extended
> tooltips. But nobody started work on a help file so far.
>
> If somebody will veto the release because of a missing help file you can
> be sure that I will never ever acting as release manager again.
>
According to ASF rules a veto cannot be vetoed...release manager needs to
say go, with min. 3 PMCs.

In general the vote is a majority vote for releases, so even if e.g. I was
to vote -1 it would not have a big effect...but stay rested I will not be
the show stopper.

Unless I read the rules really wrong.

rgds
Jan I


>
> And yes it would be missing and it should be fixed, we all agree but it
> is not stopper issue. We have much more serious problems that we have to
> fix before.
>
> >
> > making a special BZ for this issue, is in my opinion just an
> administrativ
> > trix, it does not change 1 millimeter about the fact, that we have both a
> > challenge. And also I dont understand why you separate this issue from
> all
> > the other open issues with sidebar.
>
> I really don't see a separation here, it's simply one more issue
> regarding the sidebar.
>
> >
> > We should be focussing a lot more on solving our challenges !!
>
> exactly and I don't see that here
>
> >
> > Discussing whether or not help is  integrated after both developers and
> > documenters have told it is not, or whether or not a BZ should be filled
> > out are not positive for the process or for our community.
> >
> > This is of course my private meaning, but we have a real tendency at the
> > moment to discuss the administrative surrounding and not the kernel
> issues.
> > I do not understand, why that is, but I strongly believe it signals
> > something negative.
>
> bring your concerns on the table and describe it clearly that we all can
> understand exactly what you mean. It is better to start the discussion now.
>
>
> >
> > Lets try to focus on the problems, make solutions...not administrative
> > stoppers, any objections to that ?
>
> an issue for this problem is quite normal and the solution is to start
> working on it. Quite easy from my pint of view.
>
> Juergen
>
> >
> > rgds
> > Jan I.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> -Rob
> >>
> >>> My 2 ¢
> >>>
> >>> Claudio
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
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