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From Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] New localization requirements policy needed for releases
Date Sun, 14 Jul 2013 17:11:29 GMT
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Marcus (OOo) <marcus.mail@wtnet.de> wrote:
> I tie up to Kay's suggestion to discuss a new policy. So, new topic, new
> thread.
>
> For reference here is the old policy:
> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Release_criteria#Localization_requirements
>
> My new suggestion:
>
> 1. Don't make a difference between UI and Help.
>
> 2. Accepted translations that are 90% or better.
>
> 3. *Except* we have a big or strategic new feature like the Sidebar. This
> should be translated much better than 90%.
>
> Why?
>
> 1. Do we want to make differences between UI and help translation? Do
> average users accept English help topics for translated UI functions? I
> don't think so.
>
> 2. In the previous OOo project translations were accepted with 80% or better
> for a release. IMHO this is too low to offer a high quality release.
>
> 3. New features that are also promoted in release note, blog post, etc.
> should be fully translated as the attention of our users is high here. They
> want to give it a try and shouldn't be disappointed with not translated
> parts.
>
> And now, add your points.
>


I'd prefer to keep the current rule, 100% UI translation.   But I'd be
open to requiring 100% for help as well.   IMHO we should be raising
the bar, not lowering it.

If there is a community willing and able to translate to 90% then
there should be community willing and able to translate to 100%.
There is no technical or community reason to stop at 90%.  It is only
a question of time.  I'd prefer we just wait for 100% translation and
then release it.

On the other hand, if a language is stuck at 90% and there are no
active volunteers, then I don't think we should release it.  If it
will not get to 100%, then we're just release something that will
reflect poorly on us and will slowly degenerate from release to
release.

In other words, if it is merely a case of waiting another month or two
and then releasing a high-quality 100% translation, then I think that
is better than releasing something only partially done.

Also, there is the "slippery slope" here.  If we allow 90% complete
then someone will beg for 89% complete, or 88% complete.

What I would favor is making builds available, maybe at the level of
AOO 4.0, in all languages that are "close", maybe 80% or 90%.  Not for
release or distribution, but to help volunteers evaluate its current
state and help translate.

Regards,

-Rob

> Marcus
>
>
>
> Am 07/14/2013 05:43 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk:
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 8:13 AM, Rob Weir<robweir@apache.org>  wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 3:42 AM, Juergen Schmidt<jogischmidt@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Am Sonntag, 14. Juli 2013 um 06:35 schrieb imacat:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2013/07/13 20:52, Ariel Constenla-Haile said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 12:20:32PM +0200, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 07/13/2013 05:14 AM, schrieb Ariel Constenla-Haile:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 11:54 PM, imacat<
>>>
>>> imacat@mail.imacat.idv.tw>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sorry. I did not see Traditional Chinese version. Did
I missed
>>>>>>>>> something on the Traditional Chinese version?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> UI translation is not complete:
>>>
>>> https://translate.apache.org/zh_TW/aoo40/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can see that 97% is translated. Not that bad. Do we have an
>>>>>>> agreement that we need 100% for a release?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://markmail.org/message/pxgvjuw2j3ukqsom
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Concerns should have been risen at that time, it was discussed on
the
>>>>>> mailing list, and properly tagged ("if it does not happen on the
>>>
>>> mailing
>>>>>>
>>>>>> list...").
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm asking because I really don't know it and in former OOo times
we
>>>>>>> have done releases for languages with at least 80% translated
UI
>>>>>>> [1]. So, maybe a change that I haven't seen in the last weeks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For this particular case, the translation of the main 4.0.0 feature
is
>>>>>> incomplete
>>>
>>> https://translate.apache.org/zh_TW/aoo40/svx/source/sidebar/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How serious would it be to release this translation in such a state?
>>>
>>> The
>>>>>>
>>>>>> same applies to other languages released in 3.4.* but not in this
>>>
>>> 4.0.0
>>>>>>
>>>>>> RC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hmm... I see the problem with side bar translation. And I'm very
>>>>> sorry that I was in my research paper and did not notice the previous
>>>>> discussion. However, there are several issues of concern:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. I am going to give a talk in our largest local open source
>>>>> conference (COSCUP 2013, http://coscup.org/) on 8/3, and plan to
>>>>> announce OpenOffice 4.0. It is the first talk after the key notes. It
>>>>> would be very embarrassing to announce it without a local version
>>>
>>> released.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. There would be a large-scale deployment around August or September
>>>>> (6000-7000) in a government department, and they are planning to join
>>>>> our development force in order to fix some Chinese problems in
>>>>> governmental use. If OpenOffice 4.0 Traditional Chinese version is not
>>>>> available at that time, we could only give them 3.4.1, which their
>>>>> development could not be based on.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've asked our local community to help the translation in urgent.
>>>>> If we can finish the Traditional Chinese sidebar translation with
>>>>> certain amount, could it be OK to release it?
>>>>>
>>>> let translate the UI First and then we can figure out what's possible.
>>>
>>> Hopefully some other languages can continue the translation as well and
>>> we
>>> can think about a language only release where I am a big fan of to
>>> support
>>> local communities.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> There is obviously some tension in our goals here:
>>>
>>> 1) We want to release the good work that is already done, so users who
>>> can enjoy the new features, bug fixes, interop improvements, etc.
>>>
>>> 2) We also have some languages that are "almost" done and don't want
>>> to "miss the train".
>>>
>>> IMHO the way to resolve this tension is to let the current 4.0 train
>>> leave the station, but announce another train is leaving soon.  Maybe
>>> we can set a goal of September 16th for either a 4.0.1 (if we're
>>> making code changes for a new critical bug) or a language update of
>>> 4.0.0 (if there are only new translations).  Hopefully we all remember
>>> that we did this with AOO 3.4.1 as well, adding more languages after
>>> we released.
>>>
>>>  From what I can tell there is a steady stream of interest in
>>> translating AOO to other languages.  There will always be another
>>> language that is "almost ready".  That is what success looks like.  We
>>> need to handle new translations when they are ready.  We can't hold up
>>> the train, but we also can't make volunteers wait too long for the
>>> next train.
>>>
>>> So how does September 16th sound for releasing additional languages?
>>> Is that enough time?
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>>
>> This seems quite reasonable to me. We need a little time for regrouping,
>> and dealing with perhaps some minor issues that might pop up from the 4.0
>> release.
>>
>> Re the old stated "policy" on :
>>
>> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Release_criteria#Localization_requirements
>>
>> If this no longer our policy, we should definitely change this.
>>
>> But...I think we should  first discuss the policy. What levels of
>> translation do we feel are acceptable if not at 100%. What do we
>> absolutely
>> require to be translated? Menus vs help files, for example.
>>
>> Once we determine translation thresholds, we should include the policy on
>> the "Native Language" page on the project web site:
>>
>> http://openoffice.apache.org/native-lang.html
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> But in general we have discussed it and I would have not released German
>>>
>>> (my mother language) if the UI translation would have been not complete.
>>>>
>>>> Just to make sure that we need active local communities who participate
>>>
>>> in the project or at least in the translation part.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It would be even better if the help would be translated as well but that
>>>
>>> is a much higher burden and we are more flexible here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Juergen
>
>
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