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From Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>
Subject Re: Unnecesary filestructure on images
Date Wed, 14 Aug 2013 03:34:55 GMT

On Aug 13, 2013, at 5:57 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:

> On 8/13/13, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> On Aug 13, 2013, at 4:07 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>> 
>>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 5:04 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Speaking of a confusing email exchange. This is difficult for busy
>>>> people
>>>> in the last 24 hours how many messages have been posted? A lot. By how
>>>> many
>>>> people? Not many and most by one person.
>>>> 
>>>> Did anyone create a CWiki page to outline an actual proposal and
>>>> possible
>>>> variations?
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> ​I created this page:
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/File+handling+proposal+for+logos+and+graphics
>> 
>> I edited the root files and made it into a table where the disposition of
>> each file and folder can be developed and approved.
> 
> ok but I do believe this proposal was for images and logo, and adding
> all the other directories put some overhead to what the proposal is
> about. I did include the files to identify possible conventions.

We can separate the two or we can expand this into an overall ooo-site cleanup. Agree to the
plan and then individuals can divide and conquer.

I think that the tabular format is one qw should consider it will allow for a clear description
of the plan. Redirection of old names to new could be helpful for name changes.

Also, decisions made could easily effect various NL sites. We really need to be very deliberate
here. 

Regards,
Dave



> 
>> 
>> Please don't overwrite it. Allow others to contribute. I suggest a similar
>> format for other directories.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>>> ​
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I would like to know what the delta is from what we are doing now to any
>>>> new state in order to see if I agree or have another choice.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Dave
>>>> 
>>>> On Aug 13, 2013, at 2:04 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 8/13/13, Ricardo Berlasso <rgb.mldc@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 2013/8/13 Alexandro Colorado <jza@oooes.org>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 8/13/13, Kay Schenk <kay.schenk@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 2:04 AM, Alexandro Colorado <jza@oooes.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 8:25 AM, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 7:49 PM, Alexandro Colorado
>>>>>>>>>> <jza@oooes.org>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 6:33 PM, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 1:35 AM, Alexandro
Colorado
>>>>>>>>>>>> <jza@oooes.org
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the image structure on the website
is a bit messy,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>>>>> some cleanup done by kschenk but I think
there is still a lot
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> clean up
>>>>>>>>>>>>> work to be done.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> For example, the new logo, was simply
draged and drop to the
>>>>>>>>> AOOLogos
>>>>>>>>>>>>> folder with a huge name. I understand
the name was needed to
>>>>>>>>> identify
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> between the rest of the competitive logos.
But now that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> selected,
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> current name is unecessary long.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apache_OpenOffice_Logo_ChrisR_selected_2013-06_optim_300w.png<
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/ooo-site/trunk/content/images/AOO_logos/Apache_OpenOffice_Logo_ChrisR_selected_2013-06_optim_300w.png?view=log
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Right.  That work is incomplete.  I checked
it in originally,
>>>>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>>>>> the logo vote, so we could start working
on the product
>>>>>>>>>>>> integration
>>>>>>>>>>>> immediately.  But note that the above logo
is not the one we
>>>>>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>>>>>> used in AOO 4.0 !!
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> The one we actually used is this one:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/branding/Apache_OpenOffice_Logo_ChrisR_selected_2013-06_Inkscape_kg.svg
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> This was Chris R's contest logo with some
minor technical
>>>>>>>>>>>> changes.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin G. used this and generated the PNG/JPG
files for AOO 4.0,
>>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>>> I helped check in.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> My intent was to take that SVG and rename
it to
>>>>>>> "master-logo-40.svg"
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Again I think we do need a convention for a "logo.svg"
as opposed
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> ending with a logo-30.svg logo-40.svg logo-50.svg.
An just
>>>>>>>>> incrementally
>>>>>>>>>>> replace with the future logos as we update the
SVG.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Here's the complication:   The old logos are still
relevant some
>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>> purposes.  For example, the PMC receives ongoing
requests to
>>>>>>>>>> approve
>>>>>>>>>> use of the old OpenOffice.org logo.  Why would that
happen?  Often
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> is a request by publishers who are making an e-book
version of an
>>>>>>>>>> older print book.  If their original request did
not include the
>>>>>>>>>> e-book rights then they come back to us (and owners
of every other
>>>>>>>>>> image they use) to request additional permissions.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I think that 'complication' is the lesser of two evils.,
compared
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> having to manage a ever growing ammount of images. And
beside that,
>>>> do
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> realize the difference in objectives between ooo-site/images/
>>>>>>>>> ooo-site/marketing/art/images/ and ooo-site/branding/images.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I dont see any reason why those issues should impact
the web works
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> ooo-site/images/. That folder is for website-design related
work.
>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>> has,
>>>>>>>>> or shouldnt hold any porpouse to archieve past work,
nor to hold
>>>>>>>>> description of any kind. I think website should be as
lean and easy
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> follow since we expect these conventions be followed
by a rotating
>>>>>>>>> community. So again K.I.S.S.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> No, it shouldn't. The ooo-site/images areas got the logo
added to it
>>>>>>> simply
>>>>>>>> because to make it easier to locate it. The other images
files there
>>>>>>> belong
>>>>>>>> to the home page.  The svg sub-directory here is really the
>>>>>>>> mis-placed
>>>>>>> one.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Actually I would like to see getting rid of the rasterize images
>>>>>>> instead. Modern browsers already process SVG natively without
issues.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Well, that's not completely true: even if not "modern" any more there
>>>> are
>>>>>> literally millions of people still using internet explorer 8 or even
>>>> older
>>>>>> versions, and SVG support was *partially* implemented only from IE9.
>>>>>> IE8
>>>>>> needs a plug-in for SVG rendering.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Vector_Graphics#Compatibility
>>>>> 
>>>>> That's why I recomend and reference javascript libraries that take
>>>>> care of legacy browsers additionally there are fallback techniques
>>>>> (http://dbushell.com/2012/04/03/svg-use-it-already/). Then again, you
>>>>> can just test this easily using browsershots or something similar and
>>>>> evaluate.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Ricardo
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Also there are js libraries that ensure browser compatibility
like
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> svgweb.js library:
>>>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/svgweb/
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> If those complications arises, send them to marketing
or branding
>>>>>>>>> workspaces.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> So it may be possible, going forward, to store logos
as SVN
>>>>>>>>>> revisions
>>>>>>>>>> under the same name.  But we cannot retroactively
do this with
>>>>>>>>>> pre-Apache logos.  And even if we could, this is
harder for users
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> the logo to access.  It is much easier to have something
like
>>>>>>>>>> logo-330.svg available via HTTP.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> svg are just like HTML files, they are markup languages,
we dont
>>>>>>>>> hold
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> index.html inmaculated and hold an apache-index.html
and
>>>>>>>>> oracle-index.html,
>>>>>>>>> so I dont see why SVG should be any different.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I don't agree this assessment. The svg files contain branding,
or
>>>>>>>> trademark sources. These are entities which should not be
 changed
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> resulting in a trademark violation. If there is something
wrong with
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> SVG files for whatever reason, this needs to undergo a justification
>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The only porpouse of having
>>>>>>>>> a source file, is for users to be able to modify it on
the first
>>>>>>>>> place.
>>>>>>>>> Either by integrating to a bigger SVG design, or resizing
it for
>>>> print
>>>>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> This part I do agree with. The svg files can be used to produce
>>>> various
>>>>>>>> sizes of the "trademarked" entities. Changing the source
of that
>>>> entity
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> a different matter in my opinion.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Of course you can have a hybrid approach:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 1) When a new logo is introduced, svn copy the old
one into a
>>>>>>>>>> /old-logos directory with a new descriptive name.
 This preserves
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> version history.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> This is not functional and just start acumulating part
of the same
>>>>>>>>> garbage
>>>>>>>>> that svn is supposed to clean up. Again, if this was
code, this
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> totally unacceptable approach. If new logos are introduced
then
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>> replace the current logo, and the old will live in anals
of the svn
>>>>>>> logs.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 2) New logo then is checked in as a new revision
of
>>>>>>>>>> logo-master.svg.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> People are free to disagree with me, but I think this
is a messy
>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> work, and for a webdev folder is completely useless,
specially when
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>> is a whole different project specialized on archiving,
developing,
>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> multiplying artwork inside marketing, and a whole different
project
>>>>>>>>> devoted
>>>>>>>>> to specifying the guideliness of the brand (aka logo).
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> or something clean like that.  However, I
have not had any luck
>>>>>>>>>>>> getting this logo to load into Inkscape or
Adobe Illustrator.  I
>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>> errors.  And I have not had any luck getting
Kevin to send a
>>>>>>> version
>>>>>>>>>>>> that will load.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> So we're stuck right now with a logo that
does load into
>>>>>>>>>>>> Inkscape,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>> is slightly different than the one we used
in AOO 4.0.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> At the same time we have old logos which
had been untouch. I
>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> webdevs have small understanding of a
svn is builted so that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> files
>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> updated without having different versions
laying arround. Over
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> example, ooo-logo.png and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> AOO4_website_logo.png<
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/ooo-site/trunk/content/images/AOO_logos/AOO4_website_logo.png?view=log
>>>>>>>>>>>>> exist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> All these proliferation of logos, usually
will built up to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> become
>>>>>>>>>>>>> incredibly messy to work. I suggest to
put the information such
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>> author,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> version, status, etc. on the comments
of the commit and not on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> filename.  Likewise to take the time
to look for the source of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> image,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> since there is an SVG/ folder to link
the source of them, and
>>>>>>>>> finally
>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are different images (sizes) to
have a common convention.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> A more logical naming scheme would be good,
I agree.  But this
>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>> been waiting for resolution of which SVG
we should actually be
>>>>>>>>>>>> using.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want to review the images please
go here:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/ooo-site/trunk/content/images/AOO_logos/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandro Colorado
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandro Colorado
>>>>>>>>>>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Alexandro Colorado
>>>>>>>>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
>>>>>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> MzK
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Success is falling nine times and getting up ten."
>>>>>>>>                           -- Jon Bon Jovi
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Alexandro Colorado
>>>>>>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
>>>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Alexandro Colorado
>>>>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Alexandro Colorado
>>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
>>> http://www.openoffice.org
>> 
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Alexandro Colorado
> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> http://www.openoffice.org
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
> 


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