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From Roberto Galoppini <roberto.galopp...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Should download pages *require* Javascript?
Date Tue, 20 Aug 2013 19:47:53 GMT
2013/8/20 Marcus (OOo) <marcus.mail@wtnet.de>

> Am 08/20/2013 08:59 PM, schrieb Roberto Galoppini:
>
>> 2013/8/20 Marcus (OOo)<marcus.mail@wtnet.de>
>>
>>  Am 08/20/2013 08:12 PM, schrieb Donald Whytock:
>>>
>>>   On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 5:29 AM, sebb<sebbaz@gmail.com>   wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>   On 20 August 2013 01:20, Rob Weir<robweir@apache.org>   wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 6:39 PM, Marcus (OOo)<marcus.mail@wtnet.de>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Am 08/19/2013 09:51 PM, schrieb sebb:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   On 19 August 2013 20:27, Rob Weir<robweir@apache.org>
   wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 2:14 PM, Andrea Pescetti<
>>>>>>>>> pescetti@apache.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 19/08/2013 sebb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Note that the page http://www.openoffice.org/**
>>>>>>>>>>> download/other.htmlalso<http:/**/www.openoffice.org/download/**
>>>>>>>>>>> other.htmlalso<http://www.openoffice.org/download/other.htmlalso>
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> requires Javascript!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is not so good. The noscript option should direct
the user to
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.apache.org/dyn/aoo-****closer.cgi/openoffice/<http://www.apache.org/dyn/aoo-**closer.cgi/openoffice/>
>>>>>>>>>> <http:**//www.apache.org/dyn/aoo-**closer.cgi/openoffice/<http://www.apache.org/dyn/aoo-closer.cgi/openoffice/>
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (users who disable JavaScript are likely to be able
to browse the
>>>>>>>>>> FTP-like
>>>>>>>>>> structure they will see there).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   Whatever method is chosen, I think it should be
possible to
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> download
>>>>>>>>>>> AOO without the use of Javascript.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It should also be possible to download OpenOffice
in the cases
>>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>> JavaScript parsing breaks, i.e., we should have alternative
>>>>>>>>>> download
>>>>>>>>>> links
>>>>>>>>>> that are always visible (working JavaScript, broken
Javascript, no
>>>>>>>>>> JavaScript).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  I think this is the key insight.  There are actually
three cases
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> consider:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1) Java script disabled
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2) Javascript is supported, but not working with our
page
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 3) Javascript working fine.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Some of the more recent reports are about #2.  These
are older
>>>>>>>>> versions of Internet Explorer, e.g., I.E. 6.  A<noscript>
   block
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> not help in this case.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But if it is possible to detect the broken Javascript without
>>>>>>>> crashing, then it would be possible to treat the browser
as if it
>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>> not have Javascript.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Right, has anybody an idea how to detect such broken JS engines?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     From this test it looks like the main issue is Internet Explorer
>>>>>> before
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I.E. 8:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://browsershots.org/http:/****/www.openoffice.org/**download/<http://browsershots.org/http:/**/www.openoffice.org/download/>
>>>>>> <http://browsershots.**org/http://www.openoffice.org/**download/<http://browsershots.org/http://www.openoffice.org/download/>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One approach is to see if you can code around that error and get
it to
>>>>>> work correctly on older I.E. installs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another approach is to use one of these techniques to detect older
>>>>>> I.E. and then fall back to a non-script page:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-****us/library/ms537509%28v=vs.**
>>>>>> 85%**29.aspx<http://msdn.**microsoft.com/en-us/library/**
>>>>>> ms537509%28v=vs.85%29.aspx<http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms537509%28v=vs.85%29.aspx>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> It might also be possible to use the HTTP headers User-Agent and
>>>>> Accepts-Language as a backstop for when Javascript is not available.
>>>>> This might need some Infra config support.
>>>>>
>>>>>   -Rob
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Marcus
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>  Just me-too-ing here...I can't get to the download list right now
>>>> from my
>>>> office, with IE8, scripting disabled and a somewhat draconian firewall.
>>>>  I
>>>> can get to SourceForge, though.
>>>>
>>>> Should there be an "If that doesn't work, click here" link, perhaps
>>>> pointing to...?
>>>>
>>>> http://sourceforge.net/****projects/openofficeorg.mirror/****<http://sourceforge.net/**projects/openofficeorg.mirror/**>
>>>> files/4.0.0/binaries/<http://**sourceforge.net/projects/**
>>>> openofficeorg.mirror/files/4.**0.0/binaries/<http://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/files/4.0.0/binaries/>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>> But then we run into the problem that Rainer has already reported:
>>> The file names in the visible area are all the same. You cannot
>>> differenciate between them - as long as you don't hover the mouse over
>>> each
>>> one until you have found your favorite.
>>>
>>> See here:
>>> http://sourceforge.net/****projects/openofficeorg.mirror/****<http://sourceforge.net/**projects/openofficeorg.mirror/**>
>>> files/4.0.0/binaries/en-US/<ht**tp://sourceforge.net/projects/**
>>> openofficeorg.mirror/files/4.**0.0/binaries/en-US/<http://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/files/4.0.0/binaries/en-US/>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> So, a fallback to the Apache mirror is currently the better option.
>>>
>>> @Roberto:
>>> I've lost a bit the latest update. Is it possible to change it in a way
>>> that the file names are completely shown?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Marcus,
>>
>>   I've just added a comment on bugzilla. I was wondering if it would work
>> for you since you're a project admin and by logging in you should be able
>> to see files full names.
>>
>> Correct?
>>
>
> Right, I've checked with 3 languages and for all I can see the full
> filenames. No additional text box on the right.
>

Cool.



>
> Is this something that can be enrolled for all users?
>


Not short term, since it would require a complete UI redesign and 2013
roadmap is pretty packed with things that need to be done.

Let me take the chance to tell everyone here that the SourceForge platform
is powered by the Apache Allura podling, everyone is invited to join either
the users@ or dev@ mailing-lists.

Roberto



>
> Thanks
>
>
> Marcus
>
>
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