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From Roman Sausarnes <romansausar...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Concerns about the AOO community
Date Thu, 02 Oct 2014 18:17:15 GMT
Okay, I'm going to fess up and admit my mistake. I found the link on the
"Building Guide" page (
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO) that
takes you to the Mac OS X information.

I see it now - I don't know why I didn't see it before - I was blind to it,
except it was halfway down a very long page and not at all where I would
expect to find it. I would expect to find it in the location titled:
Step-by-Step Building Guide for Different Platforms. At the very top of the
page is a link that claims to give step-by-step instructions for different
platforms, but when you click on it, it says nothing about Mac OS X. And I
still think that the information offered is not as clear or structured as
the information on the LO site.

I know that all of the information is there somewhere. I have found it in
the past. It just always feels like I have to dig for it with AOO, whereas
on LO it is easier.

Hey, programming isn't for wimps. But other noobs have now raised similar
points, so its more than just "user error".

And I second the observation that the website is confusing - there are
multiple sites with very different structures, sometimes with contradictory
or outdated information, and no real semblance of common organization
between them.

On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Roman Sausarnes <romansausarnes@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I swear I am technically savvy, but I have not found an easy link to the
> materials you reference.
>
> I start at the homepage - www.openoffice.org
>
> I click on "I want to participate in OpenOffice" link which takes me here:
> http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html
>
> I clink on the New Volunteer Orientation Modules
> <http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/index.html> link which takes me
> here: http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/index.html
>
> I click on the Introduction to Development
> <http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/intro-development.html> link
> which takes me here:
> http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/intro-development.html
>
> I click on the Building Guide
> <http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO> link
> which takes me here:
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO
>
> That page has no instructions for how to build on Mac OS X, but it does
> have a link titled Step-by-Step Building Guide for Different Platforms
> <http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Step_by_step>
which
> of course looks very promising.
>
> But when you click on that link, it takes you here:
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Step_by_step
>
> And that page offers detailed instructions for Ubuntu and Windows, but has
> no links whatsoever to any materials regarding Mac OS X.
>
> When I click on the link that you provided, I see the requirements for Mac
> OS X and I see how to get started that is very helpful.
>
> But compare that to the LibreOffice materials. I google "LibreOffice on
> Mac OS X" and I get the following link:
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/BuildingOnMac
>
> I go to that link and it has step by step instructions on what to do.
>
> I'm smart enough to be able to find what I am looking for, but I'm just
> saying that as a total newcomer to both projects LibreOffice made it much
> easier.
>
> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 10:38 AM, Alexandro Colorado <jza@oooes.org> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Roman Sausarnes <
>> romansausarnes@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > As a newcomer to development who is looking for a way to get involved in
>> > one project or the other, I thought I would share my impressions.
>> >
>> > The LibreOffice website and development materials seem friendlier to
>> > newcomers. It is easier to navigate and find simple instructions for
>> how to
>> > get the code, set up a development environment, or contribute in other
>> > ways. I use a Mac, and almost right away I found a detailed set of
>> > instructions that was (relatively) current for how to build LO for the
>> > first time on my machine.
>> >
>> > The AOO website is confusing and disorganized for people approaching it
>> for
>> > the first time and some of the information is outdated. I still haven't
>> > found simple instructions for how to build on a Mac. I have found a set
>> of
>> > instructions but they are confusing, appear to be outdated, and suggest
>> > that I need to install older Xcode, etc., without any suggestions or
>> > resources on how to do it, if it is really necessary, etc.
>> >
>>
>> ​Can you please be more explicit on this. From our angle, we create
>> modules
>> so that people could easily find the right information of the way they
>> want
>> to contribute. Going to www.openoffice.org and selecting you want to
>> contribute will lead you to a series of tutorials on how to better get
>> involved. Development starts with building for different platforms,
>> including OSX.
>>
>> All in all is 4 clicks:
>> Homepage -> Contributing page -> Development -> Building -> OSX (
>>
>> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Building_on_MacOsX
>> )
>>
>> The instructions are for 4.1 so they are pretty current. ​
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > I haven't given up on AOO, and part of me wants to figure out how to do
>> it
>> > and then write the instructions clearly for the next person who comes
>> > along, but you can understand how a person who is given two
>> opportunities
>> > is tempted to choose the one that is easier to get started on (the hard
>> > work comes later - entry should be easy) and more clearly structured.
>> >
>> > Just my two cents.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 10:06 AM, Chuck Davis <cjgunzel@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I've seen quite a number of new people show up here lately indicating
>> > > interest coming from someplace.  If one out of 10 of them sticks and
>> > > becomes a regular contributor the project is in a very good position I
>> > > think.
>> > >
>> > > My observations regarding LO:
>> > > 1)  They've copied some features from MS Office that make it equally
>> > > difficult to use....It's not as pleasant to use as AOO.  It's very
>> > > unfortunate the distributions have adopted LO in lieu of AOO.
>> > > 2)  Their constant AOO bashing is a real turn-off for me and I hope
>> > > others as well.  I don't think I want their people in our camp.
>> > > 3)  They seem to be very proud of getting rid of Java and replacing it
>> > > with Python.  I've looked at Python a little and it seems to me any
>> > > language dependent on indentation rather than syntax is
>> > > just........dumb!  There is nothing wrong with Java -- especially now
>> > > that OpenJDK is the reference implementation and is being worked on by
>> > > every major player except MS.
>> > > 4)  LO seems to have major QC issues.  The quality is definitely
>> > > several notches below where AOO rests in my experience.
>> > >
>> > > These are just my observations as a long time OpenOffice user.  And
>> > > Apache has some very interesting related projects (i.e. ODF Toolkit)
>> > > that can propel ODF as a standard reporting framework as well as the
>> > > new project to read and write OOXML for document exchange.
>> > >
>> > > My advice:  stay the course.  Emphasize quality and dependability over
>> > > glitz.  If developers are not attracted to AOO on those terms they're
>> > > not developers the project needs.  Those of us in business just need a
>> > > tool to get our work done and it doesn't need to be fancy -- just
>> > > dependable.  LO falls on it's face at this point.
>> > >
>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alexandro Colorado
>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
>> 882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9  5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614
>>
>
>

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