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From Rob Weir <...@robweir.com>
Subject Re: Two Languages: One ISO-639-# code
Date Wed, 20 May 2015 20:01:07 GMT
On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 7:14 AM, toki <toki.kantoor@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On 19/05/2015 10:20, Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:
>
> > So in ISO 639-X the most accurate you can pinpoint it is xo and then xho.
> > And in glotolog; you have mpon1252 as its most precise denominator.
> >
> > Now as it *happens* - this language is spoken in an area fully covered
> by a single country - so you can use a 3166 as a country (-1, ZA) or (-2,
> ZA-EC, ZA-NL) region specifier; and then refine it.
> > As it happens that the region more or less maps to the language spoken
> there (and lets argue that in that region or country no other languages
> are spoken).
>
> However, Xhosa is currently included in AOo, and is spoken in the same
> country as mPondo. I _think_ that AOo currently uses ISO 3166-1 code
> (IE: ZA).
>
> >
> >> For a slightly different example, I give you Koine Greek and Attic Greek
> >> .
> >> Linguist-List codes them as grc-koi & grc-att, respectively.
> >> ISO 639-2 code is GRC. ISO 639-3 is GRC. No ISO 639-1 code.
> >>
> >> I wish all dialects/languages were as accommodating as:
> >> Gottolog lush1251
> >> ISO 639-1 none;
> >> ISO 639-2 none;
> >> ISO 639-3 LUT;
> >> ISO 639-3 SKA;
> >> ISO 639-3 SNO;
> >> ISO 639-3 SLH;
> >> (Note: AFAIK, there are no spell checkers or grammar checkers for those
> >> dialects, for any office suite.)
> >
> > So also good examples - and I think the same applies
> >
> > -     you get broad specifiers on -1, -2 level.
> > -     you may get granular specifiers in -3 and -5 for the rarer/older
> languages.
> > -     for dialects and more refined pinpointing you hit the limits of
> 639(-5) and have
> >       two options; petition SIL/Library of Congress to add one (above
> examples are all in scope); or rely on glottolog.
> >
> > and
> >
> > -     using regional coding; 3166; is not really helping you - as they
> do not define language.
>
> ISO 3166-2 & 3166-1 codes are useful for locales. Which is the
> difference between Xhosa, and mPondo. At least, if one accepts the legal
> fiction that the enclaves are part of KwaZulu, and not Eastern Cape, and
> also the debatable point that mPondo is either a distinct language or a
> dialect of Xhosa.
>
> I will grant that for the First Nation languages of Australia, ISO
> 3166-2 codes are not helpful, because the language changes at intervals
> of between five and twenty five miles. (One farm in either Northern
> Territories, or Western Australia can be the home of up to a dozen
> different First Nation languages.)
>
> > Pragmatically that means using an exact -3 if you have it (i.e. the
> exact language match);
>
> >relying on the nearest ‘above’ -5 language family identifier when there
> is no -3 match to be had; and ONLY in the -5 case add whatever you can,
> e.g. the glottolog identifier, to refine it.
>
> That helps with most minority languages. There are some that glottolog
> won't define a code for, on the grounds that they are, for all practical
> purposes, extinct.
>
> > or something along those lines. And discourage -1 and 3166 use; though
> permit it in :other if there is no glottolog entry
>
> That makes things easy.
>


Two things:

1. I have no idea what anyone in this thread is talking about, but it does
sound important.

2.  I am tremendously proud that we have such knowledge and talent in our
community helping us take care of i18n issues like this.

Thanks!

-Rob



>
> Now to delve into a couple of spelling and grammar checkers, and change
> them to those criteria.
>
> And then submit the RFEs for those language/locales.
>
> jonathon
>
>

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