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From "Dennis E. Hamilton" <>
Subject RE: Independent Entity to Develop and Further AOO
Date Wed, 31 Aug 2016 22:44:46 GMT

> -----Original Message-----
> From: toki []
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 11:30
> To:
> Subject: Re: Independent Entity to Develop and Further AOO
> On 31/08/2016 16:26, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> > One can always create an independent entity.  It hasn't happened.  By
> now, the odds are clearly that it will not.
> The Document Foundation is an independent entity, building upon the OOo
> 3.x code base.
> > My considered opinion is that the greatest barrier is lack of a
> meaningful business/operation/funding model.
> The business model is giving away the product, but selling support
> services. Sun almost understood that model. Oracle understands that
> model,but would rather throw away their product, than actually implement
> that model at the SOHO, or smaller scale.
> As a business model, it works for most of the Apache projects that
> emerged from Incubation, and stayed out of the Attic.

I think that is the case because downstream producers, who get the support business, contribute
to their upstream framework or source-code distributor.  

What indication is there that any of that is working for Apache OpenOffice?  Maybe if we stopped
shipping binaries?  How would that work for the individuals who seem to dominate our download

> > I also don't think working on Apache OpenOffice is much of a resume
> builder,
> What builds resumes is the specific contributions one makes. The
> specific project, be it AOo, No Man's Sky, BLEACHER, or anything else,
> is irrelevant.
> >since there is no other project like it and probably will never be.
> At least four other office suites utilize code from AOo. There are at
> least a thousand office suites for Android, and iOS, for which AOo
> development is a useful starting point.
> > If my appraisal is sound, that leaves us with the question about
> sustainability of the Apache OpenOffice project itself,
> Go back to the revenue generation model.
> Back in the 2003-2005 time frame, there were several organizations
> licensing their rebranded version of OOo for between US$20 and US$5,000
> per seat, per year. For various reasons, I quit tracking that data, and
> thus don't know what the current situation is.
> A decade ago, it was fairly difficult to find worksites of more than
> 1,000 that used OOo. Today, worksites of more than 5,000 users, using an
> OOo derivative, are not not that scarce. Somebody is providing tech
> support for those worksites.

And how does any of that contribute to the development of Apache OpenOffice?  As far as I
can tell, those downstream activities are invisible to the project.

 - Dennis

> jonathon
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