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From Jörg Schmidt <joe...@j-m-schmidt.de>
Subject Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!
Date Fri, 20 Jan 2017 12:10:43 GMT

> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:orcmid@apache.org] 

> I observe that the Board and the Offices of ASF do not wish 
> to deal with hypothetical cases.  Exceptions must be specific 
> and actionable.  Also, exceptions do not create precedents.  
> If one project sees something they want as exception for 
> them, they must create specific exception of their own.  (AOO 
> has exception for bundling some writing tools in binaries 
> only, not in source code, because licenses are incompatible.  
> It is very specific and not a precedent for other projects. 
> When details of another exception are worked out, it is often 
> revealed that the cases are not the same. The ASF avoids 
> common risk of others seeing more "precedent" for their case 
> than there actually is.)
> 
> It seems to me that if there is a request for some sort of 
> external relationship(s), the external parties must already 
> exist and be prepared to provide detailed agreement on how it 
> will partner with AOO project in a way that preserves the 
> principles and purpose of the ASF in how AOO participates in 
> the arrangement.  This is not hard.  
> 
> I do not think making exceptions about hypothetical 
> arrangements and then seeking external parties will work.
> 
> That is why it may be better for external party to be created 
> first, operating as good downstream citizen, before requiring 
> anything of the AOO PMC and ASF Board.  Ideally, no 
> significant attention will be required.  The only thing 
> external entity cannot do, and PMC would have to intervene, 
> is make use of Apache trademarks in other than allowed ways.  
> Since it is not proposed that the external entity release any 
> software product, this should be agreeable.

Yes, you are right, this is an important other perspective of the subject. I had not seen
this perspective until now.

> Only my thoughts, not thoughts from any PMC or Board discussion.

Accepted.

But in a specific case, it needed clear statements. That means it has to be clarified which
way is the right one.

(A)
first create a concrete external party and then seek the reconciliation with Apache.

or:

(B) 
first discuss with AA how such an external party must be constituted and then establish this
party.


At the moment I can not say which way I find better. I can see that Dennis personally (A)
preferred.


The question is which way does the ASF and the OO PMC prefer? 
I think this requires official answers before we can continue the discussion in a goal-oriented
manner.



Greetings,
Jörg


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