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From jan iversen <jancasacon...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Information for volunteers
Date Fri, 19 Oct 2012 21:26:02 GMT
You give me a headache and a bad conscience over all the thing I could do
but have not (yet) done :-)

I have put some comments below, in general the list was not only for l10n
but in general for new volunteers joining in.

But to counter my headache, I hope you will be my active reviewer and
committer when my document and l10n web page is ready  ?

have a nice night.
jan

On 19 October 2012 21:20, Alexandro Colorado <jza@oooes.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 1:41 PM, jan iversen <jancasacondor@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > As agreed with Rob, I have put together a list of information, that would
> > have me problems and time for all those that helped me.
> >
> > This list is just a starting point (all the information is out there, so
> it
> > should just be a list with links)
> >
> > Suggested reading for all volunteers:
> > - Where do I find information (wiki, cwiki, mailing lists) ?
> > - What can I do to help ?
> > - How is the organization (contributor, committer etc....all the way up)
> ?
> > - Who is who ? (It would be good to have a list of the key persons) ?
> > - What are our relationship to other openOffice packages (can I use my
> > contribution elsewhere) ?
> >
> > Suggested reading for Wiki contributors
> > - Which writing rules do we have (do I change a page directly or use
> talk)
> > - How is the content controlled, basically I can write anything, are
> there
> > any QA ?
> > - How is the structure of Wiki ? (and temporary, which parts are old and
> > outdated) ?
> > - Who do I contact if I have problems/questions/need guidance ?
> >
> > Suggested reading for a translator
> > - Where do I find correct information about localization (some wiki pages
> > are misguiding, and l10n.openoffice.org is NOT a good starting point)
> > - Where can I see status of the ongoing translations ?
> > . Which tools do I need and how do I use them (any standards) ?
> > - Who do I contact to get started ?
> >
> > Suggested reading for a tester
> > - How can I help testing ?
> > - Is it possible to test in my native language ?
> > - Which tools do I need ?
> > - How do I report bugs ?
> > - Who do I contact, if I want to be a tester ?
> >
> > Suggested reading for a developer
> > - Where do I find guidance on how to write a source code (naming
> standards
> > etc.) ?
> > - Where do I find build instructions (I found 5 different for
> Ubuntu...the
> > last one was pretty good, but I still had to ask on dev for the last bit
> (a
> > simple flag was wrong))
> > - Where do I find source ?
> > - When do I need to use the sources, and when to use extensions ?
> > - Where do I find the bug reporting system ?
> > - How can I "reserve" a bug for me to solve ?
> >
> >
> > Then of course as you grow more into the community you get more questions
> > (like CMS etc), but I think to cover that would be too much.
> >
>
> There is a bit of a dilema here, what to know where to point if we still
> not sure what will be there?
>
You are quite right, but that is no excuse for leaving all the old content
untouched and making people like me utterly confused.


>
> What I mean is that most of the l10n processes are not defined, so at the
> moment the only functional part is the mailing list.
>
I am getting there...I hope my wiki "Localization AOO" was a bit more than
just the mailing list, and I hope to have the new proposal ready no later
than monday...l10n web page is a bit more difficult, because I have to find
a way of making it new, without long discussions of what  can go and what
should stay (my opinion is quite clear, doing something is better than to
sit on your hands).


>
> No QaSTE, Pootle (still unstable), TCM (gone), Continuousl10n (non
> avialable anymore), Glossaries (gone as well).
>
Hold on, what is QaSte, Continousl10n, I might have been doing consultancy
job for/with Sun but in a different ballgame (Unix for PC).
Glossaries is a main part of my proposal.


>
> So what do we have? Pootle has a process of 'only commiters' can provide or
> QA the localized strings.
>
Just my words!

>
> A think tank of a ML.
>
> This makes it somewhat easy... just calling everyone on the l10n list,
> however. Localization was a HUGE part of OOo, it worked closely with the
> NLC communities, as well as with QA and Release teams. So it was a hibrid
> of internationalization and engineering. So the process normally was a
> mixture of  technical and community minded processes. So is important we
> take this into account in order to have a roadmap, and in order of this
> roadmap we should direct the future localization community into that
> direction.
>
I agree totally, Localization seems to be a stepson of AOO, which it for
sure isn´t !!! it needs to be an integrated part, which is why I started
writing documents.

Why can´t you or even better we get that going again, I believe a lot of
translators/volunteers are out there just waiting to see what happens, so
lets make it happen....1+1 can be quite a lot more than 2 !!

>
> So we need, engineers, we need localizaers, linguist, applications, and
> INFRA and things in that order to properly construct the infrastructure.
>
You am 1 engineer with plenty of spare time (I have stopped working for
money), and there seems to be plenty of volunteers out there who want to
help....what we really need is ORGANISATION, and that is where I come from
(having had my own companies for 20+ years), so again lets make this happen
!

>
> Either custom webapps or borrowed applications. An example is what
> LibreOffice did replacing TCM with an application called MozTrap:
> http://vm12.documentfoundation.org/manage/cases/
>
You have a thorough knowledge which I can only hope to gain in the years to
come, but I think I have other skills to offer.

>
> Glossaries are now handled on the wiki, which is not optimal as far as
> terminology management.
>
That is by far NOT optimal, glossary is of highly value and belongs in SVN
alongside with translations !!

>
> Other non product related activities like website making it more flexible
> with language. We observed tools like localize.js which help manage the
> right locale for users.
> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Website/Localization#Locale.js
>
> So think JS expertise as well and maybe some HTML5 geolocation
> intelligence.
>

--
> Alexandro Colorado
> PPMC Apache OpenOffice
> http://es.openoffice.org
>

To sum it up, I like your comments a LOT, but let join up, build a team and
put actin behind the words. I as contributor and you as committor can by
catalysts to get things moving !

There are 3 big issues outstanding:
- get a more robust l10n workflow in place,
- get the l10n documentation in place,
- get the people involved back together.

But all it takes is motivation and a couple of people with different skill
sets.

Sorry for this a bit emotional mail, but after a long day with editing, I
cannot help thinking.....we need to be DOING and not just talking.

have a nice night.
janI.

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