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From Alexandro Colorado <...@oooes.org>
Subject Re: Tracking translation volunteers on the wiki
Date Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:28:50 GMT
at least thanks to svn, you can just do a recursive grep and even some
sed to do the search and replace across the file tree. :)

But at the moment l10n doesnt even show incubator, still pointing to
the old dev@l10n.openoffice.org ML

On 10/18/12, jan iversen <jancasacondor@gmail.com> wrote:
> Now I understand why rob looked for volunteers to remove incubator :-)
>
> But split among a couple of people remove incubator would be a long
> evening.
>
> jan.
>
>
> On 18 October 2012 19:21, Alexandro Colorado <jza@oooes.org> wrote:
>
>> FYI, this is the 10 foot view of the l10n www project:
>>
>> .:root folder
>> about-the-project.html
>> adding_language.html
>> all_supported_languages.html
>> build_env_changes.sxw
>> download/
>> extract_merge.html
>> how-to-join.html
>> how-to-join.html~
>> i18n_framework/
>> index.html
>> index.html~
>> index_old.html
>> irc-channel.html
>> L10N_Framework/
>> l10n_style.css
>> languages.html
>> languages.sxc
>> localization/
>> mailing-lists.html
>> mailing-lists.html~
>> ooo_readme_how_to.sxw
>> reloaded/
>> robots.txt
>> textattr.src.out.txt
>> textattr.src.sdf.txt
>> textattr.src.txt
>> Universal_i18n_framework.pdf
>>
>> ./download:
>> en-GB.html
>> quickdl.js*
>>
>> ./i18n_framework:
>> cldr/
>> CTL_Feature_Priorisation.html
>> Grid_layout_for_CJK.html
>> Grid_layout_for_CJK_html_22133b8d.gif
>> Grid_layout_for_CJK_html_4a176f2e.gif
>> Grid_layout_for_CJK_html_734c5f8a.gif
>> Grid_layout_for_CJK_html_m680d2ef6.gif
>> HowToAddEncoding.html
>> HowToAddLocaleInI18n.html
>> index.html
>> IUC19_I18n_Framework.pdf
>> LocaleData.html
>> Open-sourcing_i18n_framework.html
>> Paragraph_Alignment.gif
>> Vertical_Writing_in_Calc.html
>> Vertical_Writing_in_Calc_html_35155795.gif
>> Vertical_Writing_in_Calc_html_m1a237ea2.png
>> Vertical_Writing_in_Calc_html_m72f34545.gif
>> Vertical_writing_in_Writer.html
>> Vertical_writing_in_Writer_html_4c2567ee.gif
>> Vertical_writing_in_Writer_html_51cc6311.gif
>> Vertical_writing_in_Writer_html_m1ed87497.gif
>> Vertical_writing_in_Writer_html_m349cc61e.gif
>> Vertical_writing_in_Writer_html_m621fddc1.gif
>>
>> ./i18n_framework/cldr:
>> LocaleDataAudit_OOo202.html
>> LocaleDataAudit_OOo_CLDR.html
>>
>> ./L10N_Framework:
>> Examples.inv/
>> Getting_milestone_workspaces.html
>> How_to_localize_and_build_OpenOffice.html
>> How_to_localize_documents_of_the_extras_module.html
>> index.html
>> Intermediate_file_format.html
>> iso_code_build2.html
>> ooo20/
>> Switching_to_newer_workspaces.html
>>
>> ./L10N_Framework/Examples.inv:
>> Language_49_as_source_and_fallback.txt
>>
>> ./L10N_Framework/ooo20:
>> Collation_in_ooo_2.0.html
>> config_options_in_ooo_2.0.html
>> how_to_patch.html
>> index.html
>> localization_checklist_2.0.html
>> localization_of_openoffice_2.0.html
>> localization_tips.html
>> oo2.0_program_translation.html
>> oo_images/
>> openoffice_locale_.html
>> template.xml
>> translate.html
>>
>> ./L10N_Framework/ooo20/oo_images:
>> image001.jpg
>> imageCVS2.jpg
>>
>> ./localization:
>> About_TCM.html
>> English_Greek_OOo_Glossary.htm
>> English_Russian_OOo_Glossary.htm
>> English_Serbian_OOo_Glossary.htm
>> extras/
>> G11n_and_DE_OOo.odp*
>> L10n_pilotprocess.html*
>> L10n_testplan.html
>> MultiLanguage_OO_Glossary.sdc
>> OOO_l10n.sxw
>> OpenOffice_Glossary.html
>> OpenOffice.org_en-US_Glossary.csv*
>> translation.html*
>> Translation_Process_technical_overview_v4-1.odp*
>> Translation_Process_technical_overview_v4-2.odp*
>> Translation_Tips.html
>>
>> ./localization/extras:
>> How-To_Manual_OOo-Extras.odt*
>>
>> ./reloaded:
>> how-to-join.html
>> index.html
>> irc-channel.html
>> l10n_style.css
>> mailing-lists.html
>>
>> On 10/18/12, jan iversen <jancasacondor@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I just learned something :-)
>> >
>> > I run windows7 for my "administrative" work, like browsing, but have
>> ubuntu
>> > 12.04 installed in virtualbox, together with a AOO trunk, where I do
>> > some
>> > development.
>> >
>> > I just did not know that the www was also in SVN, brilliant idea !
>> >
>> > I will do svn co imitatively, and play with changes.
>> >
>> > That is no good, I get an error message from svn saying that the
>> repository
>> > is permanently relocated to <same address>, please relocate ?
>> >
>> > my svn works, because I have done several source updates today due to a
>> > compile problem.
>> >
>> >
>> > The commit will have to go through a committer, but that is not a
>> problem.
>> >
>> > jan I.
>> >
>> >
>> > On 18 October 2012 18:54, Alexandro Colorado <jza@oooes.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Well the process is not that hard, just need to do a site checkout.
>> >> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/source.html
>> >>
>> >> If you are on linux, installing subversion-client will do and checkout
>> >>
>> >> svn co
>> >> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/l10n/
>> >> localization
>> >>
>> >> A GUI app for KDE is kdesvn and for gnome is RapidSVN and windows
>> >> there is TortoiseSVN.
>> >>
>> >> Basically is a file explorer where you are able to update commit and
>> >> check the history of the file.
>> >>
>> >> will do.
>> >>
>> >> On 10/18/12, jan iversen <jancasacondor@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > You are quite right.
>> >> >
>> >> > But then I will have a hard time helping to change
>> l10n.openoffice.org,
>> >> > even though it would be nice to get it done.
>> >> >
>> >> > jan.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 18 October 2012 18:31, Alexandro Colorado <jza@oooes.org>
wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On 10/18/12, jan iversen <jancasacondor@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> > I had a deeper look there and got one good question.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Why do we keep l10n.openoffice.org ?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Wiki is to work, website is the front of the project. Most projects
>> >> >> just keep 2 or 3 pages on the www while having many on the wiki.
>> >> >> Usually people enter through the www and then redirect to the wiki
>> >> >> eventually. (likewise u will think on Apache.org ->
>> >> >> openoffice.apache.org) However OOo probably has more visibility
>> >> >> than
>> >> >> Apache in the real world.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Static content such as processes, FAQ, and others were kept on
the
>> >> >> www. While more dynamic information like Translating campaigns
for
>> >> >> each version releases are on the wiki. Translating campaigns like:
>> >> >> Release 3.4
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > It would be easier to use the l10n page in wiki, combine it
with
>> >> >> > information from l10n.openOffice.org and the localize wiki
page.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Just as a side remark, that would make it possible for me
and
>> others
>> >> to
>> >> >> > contribute.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > jan
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On 18 October 2012 18:07, Alexandro Colorado <jza@oooes.org>
>> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> On 10/18/12, jan iversen <jancasacondor@gmail.com>
wrote:
>> >> >> >> > Is there anyone left who feels "responsible" for
>> >> >> >> > l10n.openoffice.org,
>> >> >> >> > if
>> >> >> >> > not I will give it a go, since it is in the scope
of what I
>> >> >> >> > work
>> >> on.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > The steps suggested seems quite fair, however I do
not know
>> >> >> >> > who
>> >> >> consult
>> >> >> >> > with ?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> l10n was directed by Rafaela Braconi who was a Sun/Oracle
>> >> >> >> employee
>> >> >> >> so
>> >> >> >> most of the direction got lost there. Most of the process
was
>> >> >> >> concerted with the engineers like Eike Rathke and Pavel
Janik
>> which
>> >> >> >> deal with the l10n cws. I think Pavel still around, but
not very
>> >> >> >> active lately.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > jan
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > On 18 October 2012 15:46, Alexandro Colorado <jza@oooes.org>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> On 10/18/12, jan iversen <jancasacondor@gmail.com>
wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> > I have already put links in place, both
on the localization
>> >> >> >> >> > page
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> on
>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> > original (not old :) ) document.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > It is now updated with you snippet.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Since we are in this topic there is also another
branch that
>> >> >> >> >> would
>> >> >> >> >> need to be updated -- eventually. Which is the
>> >> l10n.openoffice.org
>> >> >> >> >> website. This was updated back in 2010 and most
of the update
>> >> >> >> >> process
>> >> >> >> >> was documented here:
>> >> >> >> >> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/L10n_Web_Pages_Reloaded
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> We should use this docs as a framework to see
in what stages
>> >> >> >> >> we
>> >> >> >> >> want
>> >> >> >> >> to update the infromation and also to what extend.
There is
>> >> >> >> >> still
>> >> a
>> >> >> >> >> lot of infrastructure to be done specially on
QA-Testing and
>> >> >> >> >> release
>> >> >> >> >> sync.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > jan
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > On 18 October 2012 15:05, Alexandro Colorado
>> >> >> >> >> > <jza@oooes.org>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> On 10/16/12, jan iversen <jancasacondor@gmail.com>
wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> > DonĀ“t misunderstand me, I think
everybody does a nice
>> >> >> >> >> >> > job
>> >> >> >> >> >> > in
>> >> >> >> getting
>> >> >> >> >> us
>> >> >> >> >> >> in
>> >> >> >> >> >> > the right direction.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> > I agree with the structure as such,
it is just at the
>> >> >> >> >> >> > moment
>> >> a
>> >> >> >> >> >> > pain
>> >> >> >> >> >> > in
>> >> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> > neck when you search information
(and not to forget, my
>> old
>> >> >> >> >> >> > horse,
>> >> >> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> >> >> > multiple logins).
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> Is called transitional period. It seems
Apache people dont
>> >> >> >> >> >> want
>> >> >> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> >> deal with PHP, something that Sun didn't
mind as much. So
>> >> >> >> >> >> most
>> >> >> >> >> >> infrastructure (Mediawiki, PHPBBs, Drupal)
are in a
>> >> >> >> >> >> virtual
>> >> >> >> >> >> environment at the moment.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> Multiple logins have always been an
issue in OOo as a
>> >> >> >> >> >> whole,
>> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> idea
>> >> >> >> >> >> of implementing OpenID came out several
times, but many
>> >> >> >> >> >> people
>> >> >> >> >> >> didnt
>> >> >> >> >> >> seem to mind just having multiple accounts,
so it never
>> >> >> >> >> >> gained
>> >> >> >> >> >> traction.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> Now at apache, doesnt seem that different
except for
>> >> >> >> >> >> pootle
>> >> that
>> >> >> >> share
>> >> >> >> >> >> your commit credentials with http://people.apache.org
but
>> >> >> >> >> >> neither
>> >> >> >> >> >> forums, extensions or cwiki share these
credentials.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> > I am just writing the last pages
on "localization of
>> >> >> >> >> >> > AOO"
>> >> >> >> describing
>> >> >> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> >> >> > current l10n process as ground
work for a discussion on
>> >> >> >> >> >> > where
>> >> >> >> >> >> > we
>> >> >> >> >> >> > want
>> >> >> >> >> >> > to
>> >> >> >> >> >> > go.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> Again this should be included in MWiki
IMO so there is no
>> >> >> >> >> >> 'old
>> >> >> >> >> >> localization' and 'new localization'.
I suggest a good
>> >> >> >> >> >> start
>> >> >> >> >> >> would
>> >> >> >> >> >> be
>> >> >> >> >> >> to create links between them and mark
outdated information
>> as
>> >> >> such.
>> >> >> >> >> >> MWiki had special tags for this.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> <div>
>> >> >> >> >> >> <span style="border:1px solid #CC7777;
background-color:
>> >> >> >> >> >> #FFEDED;
>> >> >> >> >> >> padding: 4px; text-align: left; font-weight:
bold;
>> >> >> >> >> >> margin-bottom:
>> >> >> >> >> >> 20px;">
>> >> >> >> >> >> [[image:documentation_exclamation.png|40px]]
This article
>> >> >> >> >> >> is
>> >> >> >> outdated.
>> >> >> >> >> >> </span>
>> >> >> >> >> >> </div>
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> > I was suggested to make a subpage
of the current page in
>> >> Wiki,
>> >> >> >> >> >> > that
>> >> >> >> >> >> > will
>> >> >> >> >> >> be
>> >> >> >> >> >> > easy for me, but at the same time
shows, that we need to
>> >> >> >> >> >> > make
>> >> >> >> >> >> > a
>> >> >> >> >> >> > deadline,
>> >> >> >> >> >> > freeze the wiki for a couple of
days and divide the
>> >> >> >> >> >> > pages.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> > rgds
>> >> >> >> >> >> > JanI.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> > On 16 October 2012 14:34, Rob Weir
<robweir@apache.org>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 6:42
AM, RGB ES
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> <rgb.mldc@gmail.com
>> >> >
>> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > 2012/10/16 jan iversen
<jancasacondor@gmail.com>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I know...it is just
a matter of how many accounts do
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> you
>> >> >> want
>> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> maintain
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> in order to help on
AOO.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> If I look for information
regarding AOO I would look
>> in
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> wiki.openoffice.org,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I would not think
of cwiki.apache.org
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> or have I misunderstood
something ?
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> rgds
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jan I.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > If my memory do not betray
me (I cannot find the
>> thread)
>> >> >> there
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > was
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > (sort-of) an agreement
to use cwiki for development
>> >> matters
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > and
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > traditional wiki for community
support. But it is
>> better
>> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > not
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > trust
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > my
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > memory... ;)
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> Historically there was a single
website,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> www.openoffice.orgthat
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> was
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> both user-facing and project-facing.
 It was a single
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> domain
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> (openoffice.org) as well as
subdomains for distinct
>> >> projects.
>> >> >> >> >>  Behind
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> this domain were static web
pages, a wiki, forums,
>> >> extensions
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> template libraries, etc.  So
behind the scenes it was
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> quite
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> complex,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> but to everyone it looked like
"openoffice.org".
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> With the move to Apache the
services were arranged
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> differently.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> Bugzilla is under an apache.org
domain.   Apache
>> >> >> Infrastructure
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> supported CWiki and MoinMoin,
but not MWiki.  And all
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> Apache
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> projects
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> have an official page in the
apache.org domain.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> So the idea was that we would
have two different
>> >> experiences:
>> >> >>  a
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> user-facing "product" website
at openoffice.org, where
>> we
>> >> >> focus
>> >> >> >> on
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> user-facing tasks like product
information, downloads
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> support.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> And a project-facing website,
at an Apache domain, with
>> >> >> >> information
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> for volunteers participating
on the project.  So
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> product
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> versus
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> project.  The split is imperfect,
since there is still
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> lot
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> project-related content on
the openoffice.org domain.
>>  But
>> >> I
>> >> >> >> think
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> we've done a good job at making
the user experience be
>> >> clean.
>> >> >>  A
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> user
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> going to the www.openoffice.org
home page does not
>> easily
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> find
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> outdated content.  However,
some of the native language
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> home
>> >> >> >> pages,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> the ones not maintained yet,
have a worse experience.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> -Rob
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Regards
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Ricardo
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> >> >> Alexandro Colorado
>> >> >> >> >> >> PPMC Apache OpenOffice
>> >> >> >> >> >> http://es.openoffice.org
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> >> Alexandro Colorado
>> >> >> >> >> PPMC Apache OpenOffice
>> >> >> >> >> http://es.openoffice.org
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> Alexandro Colorado
>> >> >> >> PPMC Apache OpenOffice
>> >> >> >> http://es.openoffice.org
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Alexandro Colorado
>> >> >> PPMC Apache OpenOffice
>> >> >> http://es.openoffice.org
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Alexandro Colorado
>> >> PPMC Apache OpenOffice
>> >> http://es.openoffice.org
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alexandro Colorado
>> PPMC Apache OpenOffice
>> http://es.openoffice.org
>>
>


-- 
Alexandro Colorado
PPMC Apache OpenOffice
http://es.openoffice.org

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