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From janI <j...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Proposal: communications/workflow for new languages
Date Sun, 24 Feb 2013 17:51:18 GMT
On 24 February 2013 17:25, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:

> On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 9:59 AM, janI <jani@apache.org> wrote:
> > /
> > On Feb 24, 2013 3:42 PM, "Rob Weir" <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 4:04 AM, janI <jani@apache.org> wrote:
> >> > On 23 February 2013 23:56, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 12:58 PM, Michael Bauer <fios@akerbeltz.org>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> > A common translator's tuppence on the issue. Most translators
are
> not
> >> >> > programmers and the more technical and convoluted an approach
you
> > take,
> >> >> the
> >> >> > more you narrow your potential translators down to that much
> smaller
> >> >> pool of
> >> >> > people who can do both code and translation.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > They also, for the most part, don't give a fig about what license
> >> >> something
> >> >> > is under. I realise that for the people running the project in
> > question,
> >> >> > issues of license exist but the translators on the whole just
want
> to
> >> >> see X
> >> >> > in their language released.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Thirdly, duplication is hugely frustrating for translators,
> > especially
> >> >> for
> >> >> > people working in smaller languages. Having just "rescued" some
> > Firefox
> >> >> > translations from Launchpad, I can vouch for that.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > So what would be actually nice is if AOO and LO could agree on
a
> > neutral
> >> >> > Pootle server which handles both AOO and LO strings and from which
> > each
> >> >> > project can extract whatever translations they require. Minimum
> >> >> duplication
> >> >> > and standard signup and translation process (none of this Bugzilla
> > stuff
> >> >> or
> >> >> > the need for someone to extract po files, email them, translation
> > offline
> >> >> > and the the whole thing backwards to commit, if ever there was
a
> >> >> #facepalm
> >> >> > process, that's it...), if needed, slap a notice email in the
> process
> >> >> about
> >> >> > how these will be used.
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> These are all good points (and Claudio's points are good as well) but
> >> >> they are not related to my proposal.  I was just suggesting a way in
> >> >> which we can use Bugzilla improve communications and track progress
> on
> >> >> the offline translation of the PO files.
> >> >>
> >> >> For example, suppose right now a new volunteer posts a note saying
> >> >> they want to help with the Greek translation.  Where are the PO
> files?
> >> >>  What other volunteers have started on this effort?  Who else has
> >> >> expressed interest?  Today we need to search through list archives
to
> >> >> find these facts.  But if we had one Bugzilla issue per locale, then
> >> >> we could track status there, including attaching files.  Volunteers
> >> >> can also add themselves to the cc-list for the Bug to stay "in the
> >> >> loop".  And they can even create sub-issues if they want to divide
up
> >> >> the work formally.
> >> >>
> >> > I have nothing against using bugzilla, that would be fine for me. We
> are
> >> > soon at the point where po files are available in svn (they are on my
> > local
> >> > computer).
> >> >
> >> > An alternative to bugzilla, would be mwiki (not cwiki :-). We could
> move
> >> > the translation page you have made, and attach po files...then we
> would
> >> > only have the information in one place, and I am sure more people are
> > used
> >> > mwiki than bugzilla.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Is there a way wtih MWiki to get automatic notifications when there is
> >> a status change on your language?  I think that is the strength of the
> >> workflow tracking in BZ.  Someone can add themselves to the cc for the
> >> Greek tracking issue and get all messages related to that translation
> >> effort, without signing up for the L10n mailing list and without
> >> needing to remember to check a wiki.
> >
> > It should work, if not it is a setup change that I will make.When you
> watch
> > a page (default if you edit it) you get mail.
> >
>
> So one page per language?  25 languages == 25 wiki pages?
>
>
> > please also remember many translators are not technicians and do not
> have a
> > bugzilla account, where I think a mwiki account is more normal.
> >
>
> Most translators don't have a wiki account either, until they create
> one.  And note we have a backlog of user-submitted defect reports for
> translations as well.  So translators should get familiar with
> Bugzilla in order to respond to these.  We need communications to be
> good in that direction as well.
>

I think it is the wrong direction, asking translators to use more technical
pages, wiki is a lot more to what anybody using internet is used to. But I
have no way of making a proof, so lets just agree on disagreeing.


>
> > Would you consider moving your language page to mwiki, in order to be
> > available to a broader audience?
> >
>
> I don't own any page on any wiki.  But I am interested in seeing what
> makes the most sense.  IMHO a wiki is create for collaborating on page
> contents and instantly publishing it.  But we have other tools, like
> BZ, that may be more appropriate for coordinating complex workflows.
>

Sorry for my wording, it is correct you are the owner but my words ""your
page" referred to you as the "author and the one who advertised it" . And I
solely asked, because I would not consider it polite or correct if somebody
just moved the page without prior consensus with the author.

For sure we have other tools, but where do we have the biggest exposure
(where it is possible to edit), without having the latest figures I am sure
the mwiki has more hits than our part of cwiki and bz together. Please
remember the note earlier in the thread, some translators would like to see
their name online.

But this is just my 2cent, and I believe this is an issue where we need
opinions from translator, so I will refrain from further comments.

jan I

>
> -Rob
>
> > rgds
> > jan i
> >>
> >> -Rob
> >>
> >>
> >> > rgds
> >> > Jan I
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Regards,
> >> >>
> >> >> -Rob
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > Michael
> >> >>
>

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