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From Regina Henschel <rb.hensc...@t-online.de>
Subject Re: +oswmg||Formula
Date Tue, 03 Sep 2013 20:24:35 GMT
Hi Aivaras,

Aivaras Stepukonis schrieb:
>
> 2013.09.03 19:36, Regina Henschel rašė:
>> Hi Aivaras,
>>
>> Aivaras Stepukonis schrieb:
>>> The expression "+oswmg||Formula" occurs both in
>>>
>>> Writer > View > Toolbars > Formula
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> Writer > Table > Formula.
>>
>> The commands are identical. Both are command '.uno:InsertFormula'. The
>> string is bound to the command and therefore the string is the same.
> I am not a programmer and therefore cannot comment on the program's
> inner technical workings and limitations.

It describes the current design. It does not mean, that it has to be 
this way forever.

>>>
>>> In Lithuanian, I need to use two different grammatical endings for these
>>> two instances and, of cause, I cannot accomplish this because it is one
>>> and the same string.
>>
>> What is the reason, why do you need two different strings? It is in
>> both cases a simple menu item.
> As an object it may be one and the same, but it is being address through
> a language that may in fact pay attention to the shifting environment in
> which that object is being addressed.
>
> Context 1: Writer > View > Toolbars > Formula. Proper Lithuanian
> translation would be this: Rodyti > Priemonių juostas ("-as" =
> accusative) > Sprendinio ("-io" = genitive). "Sprendinio" is in the
> genitive case because it refers back to "Priemonių juostas", meaning
> something like "[Toolbar] of/for Formula", the part in brackets being
> assumed.
>
> The main thing to learn from this is that, in Lithuanian, there is a
> grammatical connection between "View", "Toolbars" (which are viewed),
> and "Formula" (which is an attributive adjective for a "toolbar").

That is interesting. I would have never seen it that way. We in German 
interpret the items more like separate headings.

If needed we can easily combine words. In this special case we could use 
'Rechenleiste' (Google translates this to 'formulė Baras' in 
Lithuanian), and we indeed use 'Rechenleiste' in the extended tip.

>
> Context 2: Writer > Table > Formula. In this particular instance,
> "Formula" should be translated by "Sprendinys" ("-ys" = nominative)
> because it is preceded by a noun requiring no grammatical adjustment.
>
> As a result, context 1 needs the genitive case, context 2 the nominative
> case. A word in the nominative case when it should have been in the
> genitive looks like a mistake. I am very uncomfortable with this state
> of affairs...

I understand your dilemma. What to do? You should at least document in 
Bugzilla, that there is a problem, and that there is something needed 
like a conditional translation.

>>
>>>
>>> In the future, I would be nice two have two strings instead of one.
>>
>> I see no way to provide different strings, because the context is the
>> same, in both cases 'swriter'.
> Contexts are make up of sub-contexts and it is the latter, not the
> former, that may be the determining factor in deciding why a certain
> ending, tense, case, gender, number, you name it!, is the proper
> translation of a short phrase.
>
> If there is no technical means to accommodate languages in UI without
> crippling them (to a lesser or greater degree), than, oh well, there is
> none. My intention is to bring this issue up for constructive discussion
> as well as to contribute our general awareness of the cultural
> differences that are there in the world for real.

That request is reasonable. It is important that we listen to each other 
and try to understand the problems of others. Therefore my asking.

Kind regards
Regina


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