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From Rimon Barr <b...@cs.cornell.edu>
Subject modular mod_python extensions vs. "folding" mod_psp
Date Sun, 08 Jun 2003 20:18:07 GMT
Dear Jack,

>Holy Cross Posting Batman!
>I'm just replying to the proper forum (python-dev@apache)

I feel that this topic involves more than the just the mod_python
development list. It involves also the developers that use mod_python to
create Python frameworks based on mod_python, and also the users of
those systems. I selected only a few frameworks that I have posted to
before, and that I know are rather mature projects. You are free to
address your replies as you please.

>No need to freak out.  Per the original discussions of psp it will be
>seperate enough so you can use the psp stuff in a regular CGI or even
>to generate text offline altogether.

Then why the integration? It seems like it should operate just like
WebWare, Zope, Spyce and the rest: as one possible framework that you
could place on top of the mod_python base. Futhermore, my concern is not
with the generality of mod_psp, but rather with the generality of
mod_python.

>This would lend it to being generic enough that the same hooks it uses
>could be used by any other templating engine. IMO the reason psp was
>folded into mod_python and not something else is just that the guy who
>did psp was willing to put in some time and many people (mostly noobs)
>expect a php-alike with thier mod_whatever.

Installing two rpms instead of one is not a big deal, and is not a valid
reason to combine the development. PHP and Pear are seperate installs,
for example. Furthermore, Spyce and many other systems work perfectly
against the exposed mod_python API. Therefore, all the "integration
work" that you speak of has been done by others as well. Unless, of
course, there is some unexposed mod_python functionality that mod_psp is
using...

There is no performance disadvantage from this modular approach. In
fact, it is this modular approach that has made Apache popular, that has
lead to the success of Python, Perl, PHP and many other systems. People
like to plug in components. But, for that you need a component
infrastructure, and you need to resist the urge to tack on quick fixes
or integrate with this or that project to get another neat feature.
Rather, you want to create an open platform that allows others to easily
create their own extensions.

>So it solved a couple minor problems without adding any new ones. No
>big deal or conspiracy here.

The concern is not about conspiracy, but on the effect of the inclusion.
The inclusion of mod_psp, excludes other frameworks, because it becomes
the defacto standard through an arbitrary linkage to mod_python rather
than through its independent merits. It thereby stifles the progress and
interest in other solutions unnecessarily.

All the best,
Rimon.



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