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From Graham Dumpleton <grah...@dscpl.com.au>
Subject Re: Solving the import problem
Date Wed, 08 Jun 2005 00:27:23 GMT

On 08/06/2005, at 8:33 AM, Barry Pearce wrote:

> Indeed Im for fixing it...its on my list of things to do...right after 
> 'do everything the company want RSN'!!!!
>
> I do believe it should be mod_python that is fixed. I have a VERY big 
> need for reload of modules *without* taking down my server - end users 
> are using it and credit card transactions are taking place....I cannot 
> afford to take it down...
>
> As for vampire - why would I want vampire? mod_python is great except 
> this. I personally have no interest in adding yet more software to my 
> system just to solve the mod_python import issue - Id rather it was 
> fixed in the right place...not everyone uses vampire...

 From what I can see, hardly anyone actually uses Vampire and a big 
reason is
probably the same attitude you are expressing. :-(

To echo a comment I just made in a separate posting to the main mailing 
list,
I believe that mod_python and Apache in combination have huge potential 
as
being a base for quite powerful and complex systems. I feel though that 
most
people don't really appreciate the fullness of what mod_python has to 
offer
and just scratch the surface. Things aren't helped by mod_python having 
some
rough edges and gaps in its basic functionality which if present would 
make
it so much easier for people new to mod_python to make use of it. As a 
result
of these gaps I keep seeing people trying to harness what is provided in
mod_python in ways that it probably shouldn't, resulting in code which 
over
time will just become messy and hard to manage. This may be okay for 
simple
systems, but in a complicated system its asking for trouble.

One can liken mod_python to providing a good foundation and some basic 
bits
and pieces for building a house. Some of these bits are currently 
broken or
don't function in an ideal way. The point of Vampire is to provide fixed
versions of some of these bits and to provide some better bits to help 
you
in building your house. What Vampire isn't is a preconstructed house 
which you
are forced to adopt. I get the impression from various people that they 
think
Vampire is a house and as such it will be inflexible because it can 
only be
used in a certain way, consequently the often repeated thought I see 
expressed
is "why would I want to use it?".

In some respects, some of the bits and ideas embodied in Vampire are 
things
that should be in the core mod_python package. At the moment though, I 
see
enough bugs and other issues in mod_python that need fixing that one is 
better
concentrating on them first, rather than trying to push more stuff in 
there.
At least to my mind, Vampire is serving at the moment as a test bed for 
stuff
that could be later incorporated into mod_python when a clear idea 
develops
of where the best way to take mod_python would be. Unfortunately, a lot 
of
people seem to feel that since it isn't in mod_python now, that there 
can't be
much point to it and it isn't worth investigating. :-(

Graham


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