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From Andy Konwinski <>
Subject Re: IMPORTANT: Spark mailing lists moving to Apache by September 1st
Date Fri, 20 Dec 2013 06:49:01 GMT
I've set up two new unofficial google groups to mirror the Apache Spark
user and dev lists:!forum/apache-spark-dev-mirror!forum/apache-spark-user-mirror

Basically these lists each subscribe to the corresponding Apache list.

They do not allow folks to subscribe directly to them. Getting emails from
the Google Group would offer no advantages that I can think of and we
really want to encourage folks to sign up for the official mailing list

The lists do allow the public to send email to them, which I think might be
necessary since the "from:" field for all emails that get distributed via
the Apache mailing list is set to the author of the email.

I think this might be a great compromise. At least we can try this out and
see how it goes.

Matei, can you confirm that Jan 1 is the date we want to turn off the
existing spark-users google group?

We could consider using the existing spark-developers and spark-users
google groups instead of the two new ones I just created but I think that
it is much more obvious to have the lists include the word mirror in their

The dev list mirror seems to be working, because I see the last couple
emails from this thread in it already. I'll confirm and ensure that the
user list mirror is working too.



P.S. Thanks to Patrick for suggesting this to me originally.

On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 8:46 PM, Aaron Davidson <> wrote:

> I'd be fine with one-way mirrors here (Apache threads being reflected in
> Google groups) -- I have no idea how one is supposed to navigate the Apache
> list to look for historic threads.
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 7:58 PM, Mike Potts <> wrote:
>> Thanks very much for the prompt and comprehensive reply!  I appreciate
>> the overarching desire to integrate with apache: I'm very happy to hear
>> that there's a move to use the existing groups as mirrors: that will
>> overcome all of my objections: particularly if it's bidirectional! :)
>> On Thursday, December 19, 2013 7:19:06 PM UTC-8, Andy Konwinski wrote:
>>> Hey Mike,
>>> As you probably noticed when you CC'd,
>>> that list has already be reconfigured so that it no longer allows posting
>>> (and bounces emails sent to it).
>>> We will be doing the same thing to the list
>>> too (we'll announce a date for that soon).
>>> That may sound very frustrating, and you are *not* alone feeling that
>>> way. We've had a long conversation with our mentors about this, and I've
>>> felt very similar to you, so I'd like to give you background.
>>> As I'm coming to see it, part of becoming an Apache project is moving
>>> the community *fully* over to Apache infrastructure, and more generally the
>>> Apache way of organizing the community.
>>> This applies in both the nuts-and-bolts sense of being on apache infra,
>>> but possibly more importantly, it is also a guiding principle and way of
>>> thinking.
>>> In various ways, moving to apache Infra can be a painful process, and
>>> IMO the loss of all the great mailing list functionality that comes with
>>> using Google Groups is perhaps the most painful step. But basically, the de
>>> facto mailing lists need to be the Apache ones, and not Google Groups. The
>>> underlying reason is that Apache needs to take full accountability for
>>> recording and publishing the mailing lists, it has to be able to
>>> institutionally guarantee this. This is because discussion on mailing lists
>>> is one of the core things that defines an Apache community. So at a minimum
>>> this means Apache owning the master copy of the bits.
>>> All that said, we are discussing the possibility of having a google
>>> group that subscribes to each list that would provide an easier to use and
>>> prettier archive for each list (so far we haven't gotten that to work).
>>> I hope this was helpful. It has taken me a few years now, and a lot of
>>> conversations with experienced (and patient!) Apache mentors, to
>>> internalize some of the nuance about "the Apache way". That's why I wanted
>>> to share.
>>> Andy
>>> On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 6:28 PM, Mike Potts <> wrote:
>>>> I notice that there are still a lot of active topics in this group: and
>>>> also activity on the apache mailing list (which is a really horrible
>>>> experience!).  Is it a firm policy on apache's front to disallow external
>>>> groups?  I'm going to be ramping up on spark, and I really hate the idea
>>>> having to rely on the apache archives and my mail client.  Also: having to
>>>> search for topics/keywords both in old threads (here) as well as new
>>>> threads in apache's (clunky) archive, is going to be a pain!  I almost feel
>>>> like I must be missing something because the current solution seems
>>>> unfeasibly awkward!
>>>>  --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "Spark Users" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to
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