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From Jeffrey Bonevich <>
Subject Re: Tab Libraries? Bah!
Date Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:02:34 GMT
Joseph Barefoot wrote:

>>Graphics folks
>>can produce plain old HTML pages, bust them up into subtemplates, add a
>>few easily understood tags, and wallah!  What's more, the pages render
>>nicely in a plain old browser (sans dynamic content of course).  I don't
>>think JSP can do that.  Sorry, but I like to keep things simple.  If
>>your biggest hassle is getting links to go to the correct location, fire
>>the friggin' programmer, hire someone who knows how to do
>>object-oriented programming, and be done with it.
> So, the "friggin' programmer" is supposed to do URL-rewriting on links in
> pages that the "graphics folks" have produced, after the fact?  I must be
> misunderstanding you, as that doesn't seem like a very efficient work-flow

Hm.  Seems to me that if you have done your configration correctly and 
published the content that is available to the designer, they should 
have no problem using URL-bases from your configuration content.  Maybe 
I have jsut made it too easy on myself and the designers I have worked 
with in the past.

> to me.  And pages rendering "sans dynamic content"?  Would it surprise you
> to learn that *most* of each of our pages is rendered from dynamic content,
> with custom branding of various components based on who the user type?
> There would be very little to see "sans dynamic content", I assure you.
> What about internationalization of the content, is this handled by the
> template mechanism you describe?

There you might have me.  I have not done a lot of internationalization 
in the past.  However, I still don't see a problem, you just have a lot 
more of the "get" tags to provide internationalized elements.

> I believe that the template mechanism you endorse is appropriate for sites
> that are content-heavy and intended for english-speaking audiences, but for
> complex web applications, it falls well short of the mark.  I am certainly
> no bedfellow of Struts/JSP, they are just two tools that happen to get the
> job done.  Show me others that work better and I will beat a path to your
> door.

I have done some very large-scale, complex systems for a number of 
clients using our templating engine.  On one project, I came in one 
morning and the designer had completely changed the look-n-feel of the 
site without having to touch one line of code.  I have no problem with 
Struts.  If only it had been more complete 3 years ago when we developed 
our own MVC framework in Java.  Tag libraries are a good start, but JSP 
is just HTML-in-your-servlets writ backward.  There was little attempt 
to actually come up with something useful and interesting.


Jeffrey Bonevich
Ann Arbor, Michigan

Hwæt! Wë Gär-Dena   in geär-dagum,
peod-cyninga,       prym gefrünon,
hü ða aepelingas   ellen fremedon!

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