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From Arron Bates <>
Subject Re: Tab Libraries? Bah!
Date Thu, 25 Apr 2002 03:45:21 GMT
Do you really think that JSP was made simply to do a templating engine 
to make life easeir for designers and people who only do markup?...
JSP had to fight back at ASP. Something you can hack immediately, no 
compiling and just run it. Really sweet and easy to get anyone going on 
the road to a server side solution. Java lacked that. You had to write 
and compile a servlet to get anything of the sort out of Java. Not 
something that people starting out would want to do. Especially when 
they're probably already written a "HelloWorld" in ASP and on their way. 
Java had to bridge this gap in a complete way, and it did.

In this capacity, and so much more, JSP is quite excellent, and very 
powerful. From power derives complexity however. The effort to a 
templating engine is left to you guys, but JSP is an out-of-the-box 
solution that can suit visual designers (yes you may have lead them a 
little, but they're not all the way stupid. Well...most of them), all 
the way to your coders. There is a need to dumb-down aspects of markup 
(I'm working on another super-simple template engine for other reasons). 
Some need it more than others. Usually the better the designer, the more 
dumbing-down you may have to do (they can be ignorant blighters at 
times), and on the other hand, I started out a designer, and embraced it 
all... anyways.

All this, I feel has to be respected.


Joseph Barefoot wrote:

>>Hm.  Seems to me that if you have done your configration correctly and
>>published the content that is available to the designer, they should
>>have no problem using URL-bases from your configuration content.  Maybe
>>I have jsut made it too easy on myself and the designers I have worked
>>with in the past.
>I believe we are talking about two different things here; I mean the kind of
>URL re-writing that attaches the sessionID in the event that the client
>browser has cookies disabled.  Nice of you to keep your designers in mind
>while architecting a site though--I think way too many programmers look at
>designers with disdain ("You can't write/read code?  Oh, the horror! ).
>>Tag libraries are a good start, but JSP
>>is just HTML-in-your-servlets writ backward.  There was little attempt
>>to actually come up with something useful and interesting.
>Aha!  Something we can definitely agree upon!  :):)
>cheerful regards,
>Joe Barefoot
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