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From "Michael Delamere" <>
Subject Re: Struts Vs. Sun J2EE Compliance and Design Patterns
Date Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:55:30 GMT
it´s worth using Struts and being on this mailing-list just to hear you guys
I love it!



p.s. I agree entirely!

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Ward" <>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <>
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 8:32 AM
Subject: RE: Struts Vs. Sun J2EE Compliance and Design Patterns

> One of the biggest down falls and greatest characteristics of Engineers
> is that they love to build things themselves.  It is sometimes a pride
> issue...  "I can do that!"  We just love to build things.  I think the
> important thing is to maintain proper balance.  Build some, take some.
> Take things that save you a lot of time (Struts, Connection Pooling,
> JAAS, etc.)  Build the things that are specific to your application.
> There is nothing wrong with using other people's inventions...  (As long
> as pride doesn't interfere)  Just don't pound the round peg into the
> square hole.  And the beautiful thing about open source...  If you don't
> like the way Struts (or any OS project) works, change it!!!
> Where do you draw the line?  If you want to build stuff from the ground
> up, why not start with writing machine code, or at least assembler.
> Come on...  Everyone knows that writing a bunch of assembly code can
> make your application run much faster and you won't have to relay on
> third party anything...  Not API's, or JVM's or anything but your
> processor and the OS.  Perhaps you should even build your own OS so you
> don't have to use that piece of third party software.  ;)
> Using third party software does not mean your app will be slower.
> Using third party software does not mean your app will be less stable.
> Using third party software does not mean you are a worthless Engineer.
> Using third party software is not a sin!
> Just my $0.02
> -James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Juan Alvarado (Struts List) []
> Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 2:20 PM
> To: Struts
> Subject: Struts Vs. Sun J2EE Compliance and Design Patterns
> Hello folks:
> Recently I had a discussion with an ex-colleague of mine regarding
> struts. I
> explained to him that it's an awesome framework and that it has
> everything
> for developing web applications using MVC.
> His response was something to the effect of "I'm sure struts is great
> but we
> are very happy with our architecture here and that it has all the
> benefits
> of struts and that they are 100% J2EE compliant and sun pattern
> compliant
> and blah blah blah.... He also made it a point to point out that his
> architecture is just J2EE and no third party libraries.
> I tried telling him that struts was all J2EE also and that it was
> written in
> pure java. His response was that it was a third party package on top of
> J2EE. He then tried to tell me what patterns he uses for his
> architecture
> and those consisted of: Service to Work, with Servlet Front Strategy,
> Displatcher in Controller Strategy, and JSP View Strategy, Value
> Objects,and
> Data Access Objects.
> I tried to tell him that all that was nice and dandy, but with struts he
> could use all those patterns with struts and in the process save himself
> a
> ton of time in developing his application(s). Basically this was his
> response:
>  I'm just against anything other than the base stuff. I don't like
> reallying
> on any pieces that are from other parties or that put layers on top of
> Java... to be honest, I'm just not interested. I'm sure that many of the
> people on there will have lots to say about why struts is great, but I
> already looked into it, along with all other options, and saw no
> benefits
> beyond adopting J2EE and Sun's core J2EE patterns. There isn't anything
> struts does that our architecture now doesn't do, and it doesn't do it
> any
> easier, so why would I bother?
> So my question is as follows... Isn't this person wrong in saying that
> struts puts layers on top of Java and that struts doesn't do anything
> easier
> than his sun based architecture?? If that was the case, why aren't we
> using
> his architecture/framework?? I mean as far as I know, sun doesn't have
> anything close to what struts is, and if truth be told, aren't they(Sun)
> using at least one of the struts creators for their own Java Server
> Faces
> framework.
> I would love to hear what the community's reaction to these comments
> are.
> Sorry for the long post, but I think this one was worth it.
> **********************************************
> Juan Alvarado
> Internet Developer -- Manduca Management
> (786)552-0504
> AOL Instant Messenger:
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