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From jsad...@gpnus.mizuho-cb.com
Subject Re: Indemnification & copyright
Date Mon, 23 Sep 2002 14:24:18 GMT


I have run across similar "situations". In all cases, you have a manager A) who
simply is looking for maximum CYA and doesn't know how to operate in anything
but the corporate prescribed fashion B) opposes Open Source C) Both




"Karim Saloojee" <karims@hotpop.com> on 09/23/2002 09:57:06 AM

Please respond to "Struts Users Mailing List" <struts-user@jakarta.apache.org>

To:   "Struts Users Mailing List" <struts-user@jakarta.apache.org>,
      andrew.david.hill@gridnode.com
cc:    (bcc: Joseph Sadove/DKBDS USA/DKB)

Subject:  Re: Indemnification & copyright


I also agree, the Struts coders would never be adding what amounts to
"stolen" code.

However if they did, it makes sense that Apache would be responsible not
company XYZ running struts 1.0

Why does your boss think this problem applies to OS projects only? You guys
surely have bought other "closed" software, what happens if your "closed"
software has violated some patent/copyright? What makes you so sure the
holders of the copyright wont sue your company for damages even if the
software was built by some other commercial entity and sold to you? The
situation would boil down to the same thing eventually.

Use Struts and dont worry, Apache will pay for everything. Worst case
scenario is that Apache will sell their URL to Larry Flynt and use the
proceeds to pay a couple of patent holders.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Hill" <andrew.david.hill@gridnode.com>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <struts-user@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 2:27 PM
Subject: RE: Indemnification & copyright


> Have to agree with you there.
> I can't imagine for an instance the struts contributors would ever be
adding
> dodgy code, way I see it, its purely a hypothetical question as far as
> struts is concerned.
> You would need to be quite paranoid to let such a worry about struts put
you
> off using it. Indeed from what I gather its the proprietary stuff where
this
> becomes a problem as the source is not open to review.
> I would still be interested to know the legal position on such a issue
> however as a theoretical curiosity...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:Galbreath@tessco.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 20:15
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: Indemnification & copyright
>
>
> I think that's a bit of a stretch.  I have no doubt in my mind that the
guys
> producing the nightly builds have more professional integrity than to
> incorporate code of questionable origins or legality into Struts.  I mean,
> how dumb would that be?  It's open-source and doing something like that
> would ruin your career.
>
> I'd say to his employer to take a look at all the commercial applications
> now using Struts and ask him if he's not being just a wee bit paranoid....
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Hill [mailto:andrew.david.hill@gridnode.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 7:45 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: Indemnification & copyright
>
>
> His employer is worried that one of the struts contributers could include
> some code that someone else has rights to and that as a user of struts his
> employer would be then be legally liable for such an infringement.
>
> In this event the Apache licence would not really be relevant as the dodgy
> chunk of code involved wouldnt be Apaches to license in the first place.
> (ie: would mean as much as a handwritten certificate of authority from the
> guy down the pub who sold you a cheap car stereo)
>
> The question in this case is what happens to folk using struts in regards
to
> their legal liabilty regarding any such dodgy code distributed with
struts.
> I dont know the answer to this one but would be rather curious to know.
>
> Common sense would suggest that having used struts 'in good faith' we
> wouldnt be liable, but since this is a legal issue any conclusion reached
by
> using common sense is almost certainly completely invalid...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:Galbreath@tessco.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 19:27
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: Indemnification & copyright
>
>
> There is no liability issue as long as you abide by the license, which
> merely requires that credit is given to Apache for redistributed software
> containing ASF code.
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/common/license.html
>
> Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Malcolm Davis [mailto:malcolm@nuearth.com]
> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 8:02 PM
>
> I am presently in a predicament on my present contract.  I
> am not allowed to use STRUTS unless my employer can be
> indemnified from copyright or patent infringement.
> 1.  Is there anyway my employer can be indemnified from
> copyright or patent infringement with Struts?
> 2.  Is there a company that provides this service?
> 3.  Is this really an issue with Struts?
>
> The liability extends from the use of intellectual property.
> A developer knowingly or unknowingly contributes a piece of
> software to the Open Source community that contains
> intellectual property.  I then use that piece of open source
> software.
>
> Thanks for any comments,
> malcolm
>
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