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From "Jerry Jalenak" <Jerry.Jale...@LABONE.com>
Subject RE: DAO or ... ?
Date Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:29:10 GMT
Thanks - it's nice to know somebody out there respects me!  :-)

Seriously though, I agree with you 100%. Technology changes to quickly to be
able to rest on your laurels - just look at this list and evolution of
Struts in the past 90 days! Fortunately for me, I managed to find this list
when I first started learning Java (about 6 months ago) - and I can tell you
it has been the absolute best resource, and not just for struts and java.
I'm now to a point where I'm trying to refine my coding techniques, hence my
interest in patterns.  Besides the GoF book, are the any really great books
on patterns that are Java and web development specific?  It would be nice to
have all of this stuff in one location......

Jerry

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:Simon.Chappell@landsend.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 3:12 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: DAO or ... ?
> 
> 
> You have my sympathy and my respect.
> 
> While I graduated after you, they still hadn't invented the 
> World Wide Web and Java was a way off yet. Almost everything 
> skill that I use to earn my living today is something that I 
> have taught myself. I spotted Java and learned it back when 
> it first came out, and I have read enough material since I 
> graduated to sink a small aircraft carrier. It seems to me 
> that those that get anywhere in this industry are self-taught 
> self-starters. Sure, we start with a CS degree, but 
> everything goes out of date so quick in this industry, that 
> you can't sit back on your laurels and wait for people to 
> throw money at you. You have to go go and learn stuff outside of work.
> 
> As for patterns, I was associated with some Smalltalkers for 
> a while and heard them talking about patterns and saw the 
> GoF, bought a copy for myself and have been using them ever 
> since (just not calling them the right names! ;-)
> 
> Simon
> 
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Jerry Jalenak [mailto:Jerry.Jalenak@LABONE.com]
> >Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 3:02 PM
> >To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> >Subject: RE: DAO or ... ?
> >
> >
> >You guys have it lucky to even know what a pattern is.  I 
> >graduated with a
> >C.S. degree in 1983 - object oriented programming barely 
> >existed then, let
> >alone taught.  Matter of fact we were required to learn IBM 
> >Assembler, and
> >either COBOL or PL/1 as a graduation requirement!  If I 
> >remember right, my
> >"Software Engineering" class dealt with writing a basic 
> compiler for a
> >COBOL-type language (written in assembler, or course).  You 
> ought to be
> >where I am trying to play catch-up on all of this Java / web / 
> >struts / ....
> >stuff while trying to deliver projects on time and budget!
> >
> >Jerry
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: John Owen [mailto:johnlowen_bham@hotmail.com]
> >> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 2:45 PM
> >> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> >> Subject: Re: DAO or ... ?
> >> 
> >> 
> >> We were taught algorithms and finite state machines, but I 
> >> don't remember
> >> any design pattern coverage. I graduated in 1994 and other 
> >> than that, they
> >> perfectly prepared me for my future as a developer. We 
> >> covered many software
> >> design principles in my Software Engineering classes, but the 
> >> memory is so
> >> vague that I can't recall if anything was categorized into 
> patterns.
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Chappell, Simon P" <Simon.Chappell@landsend.com>
> >> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <struts-user@jakarta.apache.org>
> >> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 2:33 PM
> >> Subject: RE: DAO or ... ?
> >> 
> >> 
> >> I have no idea whether they teach patterns in University. I 
> >> graduated in
> >> 1990 and we didn't even have the Internet back then let alone 
> >> Patterns!
> >> 
> >> Jacob: How about it my friend? Do they teach patterns in the UW?
> >> 
> >> Simon
> >> 
> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >From: Wendy Smoak [mailto:Wendy.Smoak@asu.edu]
> >> >Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 2:29 PM
> >> >To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> >> >Subject: RE: DAO or ... ?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> It's called experience .... it's why they pay us old guys
> >> >more than you
> >> >young bucks! ;-)
> >> >
> >> >LOL!  It's also called being absolutely CERTAIN that someone
> >> >has solved this
> >> >problem before, and not going off reinventing the wheel.  As
> >> >an aside, are
> >> >patterns being taught in computer science?  I'm working on a
> >> >degree and the
> >> >senior-level course I'm taking this semester has been the
> >> >first time I've
> >> >seen a lecture about them.  And then he only covered 
> three (Factory,
> >> >Abstract Factory and Singleton) and not very in depth at that.
> >> >
> >> >I like Applied Java Patterns by Stephen Stelting & Olav
> >> >Maassen.  While the
> >> >GoF book is surely timeless, I'm guessing the examples are not
> >> >written in
> >> >Java.  With Applied Java Patterns (and Core J2EE Patterns) I
> >> >can cut and
> >> >paste and have a head start on the implementation.
> >> >
> >> >--
> >> >Wendy Smoak
> >> >Applications Systems Analyst, Sr.
> >> >Arizona State University PA Information Resources Management
> >> >
> >> 
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