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From "Andrew Hill" <andrew.david.h...@gridnode.com>
Subject RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
Date Wed, 22 Jan 2003 03:02:45 GMT
Well at least its got better hours...

<btw>
I grew up on a farm & the 'farm management' elective I took in high school
was the only subject  I ever got straights 'A's in. - Come to think of it it
was the only subject I ever got 'A's in at all, but I digress...
</btw>

-----Original Message-----
From: s.frank@vierundsechzig.de [mailto:s.frank@vierundsechzig.de]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 00:45
To: struts-user@jakarta.apache.org; andrew.david.hill@gridnode.com
Subject: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers


maybe the economic downturn should go on for a while and some of the lesser
talented will go back to farming...
--- Urspr√ľngliche Nachricht ---
Datum: 21.01.2003 17:18
Von: "Andrew Hill" <andrew.david.hill@gridnode.com>
An: "Struts Users Mailing List" <struts-user@jakarta.apache.org>
Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers

> Im surprised sich developers have jobs in todays market.
> Surely there must be a glut of more experienced developers that can be
> obtained at the same price?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: s.frank@vierundsechzig.de [mailto:s.frank@vierundsechzig.de]
> Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 00:15
> To: struts-user@jakarta.apache.org; s.frank@vierundsechzig.de;
> jchilders@hotels.com
> Subject: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
>
>
> ok, I think it's time for us all, to lower our standards: Talking about
> newbies: The newbies I mean have just started Java. They think R/3 is a
> piece of good Software instead of a piece of crappy scripts. They asked
> things like: "What do you mean with Transaction?",  "Huh, why a
database
> *and* an applicationserver?". And if you ask them for their favourite
> tool, they show you a Chainsaw and a Screwdriver(ok, only the better
ones
> have screwdrivers). If you tell them: Use what makes you more
productive
> they stick to paper&pencil. I understand them, if you start there,
there
> is nothing you can decide upon. You have to tell them: But if you have
> more than one senior-coder, it would be nice if they agreed on what
they
> tell them...
>
>
> --- Urspr√ľngliche Nachricht ---
> Datum: 21.01.2003 16:48
> Von: "James Childers" <jchilders@hotels.com>
> An: "Struts Users Mailing List" <struts-user@jakarta.apache.org>,
> <s.frank@vierundsechzig.de>
> Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
>
> > This isn't about "expressing your individuality", it's about doing
what
> makes you -- the coder -- more productive. If it's your job to write
code,

> and you feel more comfortable using your favorite tool, then by all
means
> use it.
> >
> > As far as administrative costs are concerned: Coders are smart enough
to
> troubleshoot their own boxes, and if they're not then they damn well
> should be.
> >
> > Newbies? I challenge the notion that forcing new toolsets on them is
> productive in the long run. It is completely within the realm of
> possibility that they will have a shorter ramp-up time if they are able
to
> use tools they are already familiar with to integrate with existing
> standards.
> >
> > In short: I have never encountered a development environment where it
> would be better to standardize upon a single, monolithic work
environment
> for all developers. Some people like Emacs, some like Eclipse, some
like
> directly editing bytecode with a hex editor. Whatever. So long as the
> project gets done on time, on budget, and meets the requirements *it
> doesn't matter*.
> >
> > -= J
> >
> > PS: I am currently working on a team of 12 developers who each use
their
> own toolset. We are ahead of schedule and under budget.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: s.frank@vierundsechzig.de [mailto:s.frank@vierundsechzig.de]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:30 AM
> > > To: struts-user@jakarta.apache.org
> > > Subject: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
> > >
> > >
> > > I think there exist many and more fruitful ways to express your
> > > individuality than using IDE A rather than that ide B.
> > >
> > > If the IDE is not important, why not standardize one: Makes
> > > it easier for
> > > administrators to setup new boxes, allows to pass the box to
another
> > > member of your team, allows to use the same plug-ins and so
> > > on: Just think
> > > about Integration with version-Control: Cowboy-Coder A uses
> > > Eclipse which
> > > has a bug with Perforce-Integration, Cowboy-Coder B insists on
using
> > > IntelliJ, which has no Perforce-Integration at all: And the
> > > Newbie-Coder
> > > comes in and is totally confused as there exist three ways of
> > > setting up
> > > your enviroment. No Standards at all are ok if you have a team-size
> of
> > > one...
> > >
> > > --- Urspr√ľngliche Nachricht ---
> > > Datum: 21.01.2003 16:20
> > > Von: "James Childers" <jchilders@hotels.com>
> > > An: "Struts Users Mailing List" <struts-user@jakarta.apache.org>
> > > Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I second this. Different people work in different ways;
> > > standardizing an
> > > IDE for every developer ignores this rather key fact of human
> > > nature. If
> > > my company were to standardize on an IDE that some people don't
like,
> > > they're just going to be frustrated and bitter, decreasing
> > > productivity.
> > > >
> > > > *shudder* Thank Baal they don't do that at my company.
> > > Everybody can use
> > > whatever development tools they want, so long as the code compiles
> and
> > > passes the unit tests.
> > > >
> > > > I use Eclipse and Vim, primarily. If management tried to
> > > take away Vim I
> > > would have to tell them to... well... You get the idea.
> > > >
> > > > Speaking of which, I've been tinkering with IDEA lately,
> > > and it looks
> > > quite promising. Tight, and as fast as Eclipse. Plus I like
> > > the fact that
> > > I can do everything within it without using the keyboard. And
> > > it can do
> > > regexp search and replaces, which is one of the main things keeping
> me
> > > married to Vim right now.
> > > >
> > > > -= J
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Alex [mailto:axs@m-net.arbornet.org]
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:16 AM
> > > > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > > > > Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Daniel H. F. e Silva wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So,
> > > > > order is order.
> > > > > >  I think his concern about this task is to improve
> > > > > productivity. So, what is more productive?
> > > > >
> > > > > If he wants productivity then let the developers use the
> > > > > tools they are
> > > > > familiar with.
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> > --
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> >
> >
>
>
>
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