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From "Jaye Bass" <jayeb...@knology.net>
Subject RE: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
Date Tue, 04 Mar 2003 01:42:39 GMT
First off...I'd take Mary Ann any day. Second I love IntelliJ. Does it
make me a better programmer...I think it probably does: alt-enter,
refactoring, multiple paste buffers, optimizing imports, finding usages,
ok CVS support and a pretty decent debugger. I know it makes me a
happier programmer.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Kyser [mailto:ktrails@comcast.net] 
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 4:57 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)

Wow, this argument is about as winnable as a 'Ginger or Mary Anne' 
discussion
and not nearly as interesting. Although the diatribes about 
productivity are
kinda humorous, given the context ;)

-jeff


On Monday, March 3, 2003, at 04:42  PM, Assenza, Chris wrote:

> If one were to make a value judgement such as "better" then one would
> require a common basis for comparison.  I would be safe in assuming 
> that not
> everyone here is analyzing this question based on a common frame of
> reference, in fact I bet we all have slightly different concepts of 
> who or
> what makes a better programmer.
>
> Therefore, the first question to ask must instead be: "What does it 
> mean to
> be a good programmer?" or even: "What is a good programmer."  For 
> argument's
> sake, as part of our answer to that question we say that one trait of 
> a good
> programmer is thorough knowledge (or perhaps memorization) of a 
> syntax.  If
> that is true, then someone who uses a text editor is more likely to be
> considered a better programmer.
>
> However, it can be argued that syntax memorization is not so 
> all-important.
> For example, there are many excellent writers and thinkers who cannot 
> spell
> worth a dime, yet they work with words all day long.  As such, the
> programmer who uses an IDE may well be a "better" programmer in the 
> sense
> that A) the IDE supplements their knowledge of the syntax and B) 
> separates
> the programmer from a requirement to memorize syntax and instead 
> allows them
> to focus on what they're supposed to be doing: engineering software 
> through
> solid design principles, etc.
>
> Ultimately, I think the answer is completely subjective and depends 
> wholly
> on what one means by "better" programmer. Certainly someone who lives 
> in an
> IDE cannot jump into Textpad and be expected to be nearly as 
> productive, but
> that does not necessarily diminish their core aptitude as a
programmer!
>
> All that being said, if you don't use Textpad you're a n00b! =)
>
> -Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:Simon.Chappell@landsend.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 4:58 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
>
>
> No. I very specifically said that the better programmers CAN use text
> editors and command-line tools. This does not mean that they have to, 
> only
> that they COULD use them if they choose to. I now use the Eclipse IDE 
> for
> alot of my personal programming because it is like a text editor that 
> wants
> to be helpful. I like the wrappers that it gives me for the compiles 
> and
> junit tests, but that it keeps out of the way for the actual editing 
> if I
> don't invoke any of the "helpful" intelli-wotsits.
>
> Simon
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chen, Gin [mailto:Gin.Chen@NielsenMedia.com]
>> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 3:49 PM
>> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>> Subject: RE: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
>>
>>
>> I think your confusing personal perference with programming skill.
>> Thats like saying that Ted drink Sprite when most of the
>> better programmers
>> drinks Mountain Dew.
>> -Tim
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:Simon.Chappell@landsend.com]
>> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 4:38 PM
>> To: Struts Users Mailing List
>> Subject: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
>>
>>
>> Actually, my primary point was text editor usage and
>> programmer ability.
>>
>> It is my personal observation that the better programmers use
>> text editors.
>> (vi or emacs or jedit or vim ... I don't care ... that's not
>> the argument
>> here). I'm not quite saying that IDEs are bad, although I'm certainly
>> tempted to say that some days, but programmers who CAN program
>> with text
>> editors and command-line tools are orders of magnitude better
>> than those who
>> can't. You are more than welcome to tell me that you believe
>> this is not so,
>> but I have observed it enough that, to me, it is a truism.
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: David Graham [mailto:dgraham1980@hotmail.com]
>>> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 2:56 PM
>>> To: struts-user@jakarta.apache.org
>>> Subject: RE: [OT]: What is vim?
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> VIM (vi) beats the hell out of EMACS, unless you are a LISP
>>>>> weenie with a
>>>>> masochistic bent.  And any non-dot-completion editor refines
>>>>> your sense of
>>>>> the API because it forces you to RTFM.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark
>>>
>>> I use an ide and am referencing javadoc all the time anyways.
>>> I don't see
>>> any correlation between ide use and api ignorance.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
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>>>
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>
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