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From "Mark Galbreath" <mark_galbre...@qat.com>
Subject RE: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
Date Mon, 03 Mar 2003 22:48:34 GMT
Well, you are full of shyte.  Okay?

Mark (been a master carpenter and Java certified)


-----Original Message-----
From: John Espey [mailto:jespey@tallan.com] 
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 5:40 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)


I disagree STRONGLY with the statement that a programmer who uses a text
editor learns the language better.  This is like saying a construction
worker cannot be a good carpenter unless he builds a house from the ground
up with a hammer and a standard screwdriver.  Just because I look at a black
and white screen and am forced to type everything (every setter, every
getter, every exception), and I have to add debug log statements anywhere
that I want visibility into the code doesn't mean I will magically
understand the code any better than if I use a modern tool to help me with
some of these more menial tasks that are by no means essential to
understanding what a piece of code is doing.
  (I'll caveat this by saying that I think that a VIM or EMACS user will be
able to manipulate text faster, no argument there.)





> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:gourav.pani@brightpoint.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 3:49 PM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
>
>
> i agree with simon to a certain degree.  personally, i got a lot 
> better understanding of programming when i was forced into an 
> environment where i had to use vi and command line for development.  
> eventually we switched to a more organized environment with jEdit as 
> the IDE.  i will admit that using the IDE has probably increased my 
> productivity.  but i definitely feel that
> i have a better understanding of how things interract because i
> have worked
> in a "bare-bone" environment.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: apachep2 [mailto:apachep2@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 4:43 PM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
>
>
> IDE is what we usually called productivity tool, text editor is not. 
> There is nothing to do with a developer's skill.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:Simon.Chappell@landsend.com]
> Sent: March 3, 2003 4:38 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
>
> Actually, my primary point was text editor usage and programmer 
> ability.
>
> It is my personal observation that the better programmers use text 
> editors. (vi or emacs or jedit or vim ... I don't care ... that's not 
> the argument here). I'm not quite saying that IDEs are bad, although 
> I'm certainly tempted to say that some days, but programmers who CAN 
> program with text editors and command-line tools are orders of 
> magnitude better than those who can't. You are more than welcome to 
> tell me that you believe this is not so, but I have observed it enough 
> that, to me, it is a truism.
>
> Simon
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: David Graham [mailto:dgraham1980@hotmail.com]
> >Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 2:56 PM
> >To: struts-user@jakarta.apache.org
> >Subject: RE: [OT]: What is vim?
> >
> >
> >> >
> >> >VIM (vi) beats the hell out of EMACS, unless you are a LISP weenie 
> >> >with a masochistic bent.  And any non-dot-completion editor 
> >> >refines your sense of
> >> >the API because it forces you to RTFM.
> >> >
> >> >Mark
> >
> >I use an ide and am referencing javadoc all the time anyways. I don't 
> >see any correlation between ide use and api ignorance.
> >
> >David
> >
> >
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