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From "Mark Galbreath" <mark_galbre...@qat.com>
Subject RE: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
Date Mon, 03 Mar 2003 23:25:55 GMT
I rest my case!  ;-)

 
Mark Galbreath
Principal Consultant
Workflow Process Engineering and Systems Integration
http://www.QAT.com
410-703-367 / 800-799-8545
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by
stupidity."  ~Hanlon's Razor


-----Original Message-----
From: John Espey [mailto:jespey@tallan.com] 
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 6:02 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)


Java Certified?  That proves it conclusively then.  What was I thinking?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:mark_galbreath@qat.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 4:49 PM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
>
>
> Well, you are full of shyte.  Okay?
>
> Mark (been a master carpenter and Java certified)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Espey [mailto:jespey@tallan.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 5:40 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
>
>
> I disagree STRONGLY with the statement that a programmer who uses a 
> text editor learns the language better.  This is like saying a 
> construction worker cannot be a good carpenter unless he builds a 
> house from the ground up with a hammer and a standard screwdriver.  
> Just because I look at a black and white screen and am forced to type 
> everything (every setter, every getter, every exception), and I have 
> to add debug log statements anywhere that I want visibility into the 
> code doesn't mean I will magically understand the code any better than 
> if I use a modern tool to help me with some of these more menial tasks 
> that are by no means essential to understanding what a piece of code 
> is doing.
>   (I'll caveat this by saying that I think that a VIM or EMACS user 
> will be able to manipulate text faster, no argument there.)
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:gourav.pani@brightpoint.com]
> > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 3:49 PM
> > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> > Subject: RE: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
> >
> >
> > i agree with simon to a certain degree.  personally, i got a lot 
> > better understanding of programming when i was forced into an 
> > environment where i had to use vi and command line for development. 
> > eventually we switched to a more organized environment with jEdit as 
> > the IDE.  i will admit that using the IDE has probably increased my 
> > productivity.  but i definitely feel that i have a better 
> > understanding of how things interract because i have worked
> > in a "bare-bone" environment.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: apachep2 [mailto:apachep2@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 4:43 PM
> > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> > Subject: RE: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
> >
> >
> > IDE is what we usually called productivity tool, text editor is not. 
> > There is nothing to do with a developer's skill.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:Simon.Chappell@landsend.com]
> > Sent: March 3, 2003 4:38 PM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
> >
> > Actually, my primary point was text editor usage and programmer 
> > ability.
> >
> > It is my personal observation that the better programmers use text 
> > editors. (vi or emacs or jedit or vim ... I don't care ... that's 
> > not the argument here). I'm not quite saying that IDEs are bad, 
> > although I'm certainly tempted to say that some days, but 
> > programmers who CAN program with text editors and command-line tools 
> > are orders of magnitude better than those who can't. You are more 
> > than welcome to tell me that you believe this is not so, but I have 
> > observed it enough that, to me, it is a truism.
> >
> > Simon
> >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: David Graham [mailto:dgraham1980@hotmail.com]
> > >Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 2:56 PM
> > >To: struts-user@jakarta.apache.org
> > >Subject: RE: [OT]: What is vim?
> > >
> > >
> > >> >
> > >> >VIM (vi) beats the hell out of EMACS, unless you are a LISP 
> > >> >weenie with a masochistic bent.  And any non-dot-completion 
> > >> >editor refines your sense of the API because it forces you to 
> > >> >RTFM.
> > >> >
> > >> >Mark
> > >
> > >I use an ide and am referencing javadoc all the time anyways. I 
> > >don't see any correlation between ide use and api ignorance.
> > >
> > >David
> > >
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
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> > >
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