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From Sean Chambers <sean.chamb...@eurorscg.co.uk>
Subject RE: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
Date Tue, 04 Mar 2003 01:44:26 GMT
who are ginger and mary anne?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jaye Bass [mailto:jayebass@knology.net]
> Sent: 04 March 2003 01:43
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
> 
> 
> First off...I'd take Mary Ann any day. Second I love IntelliJ. Does it
> make me a better programmer...I think it probably does: alt-enter,
> refactoring, multiple paste buffers, optimizing imports, 
> finding usages,
> ok CVS support and a pretty decent debugger. I know it makes me a
> happier programmer.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Kyser [mailto:ktrails@comcast.net] 
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 4:57 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
> 
> Wow, this argument is about as winnable as a 'Ginger or Mary Anne' 
> discussion
> and not nearly as interesting. Although the diatribes about 
> productivity are
> kinda humorous, given the context ;)
> 
> -jeff
> 
> 
> On Monday, March 3, 2003, at 04:42  PM, Assenza, Chris wrote:
> 
> > If one were to make a value judgement such as "better" then 
> one would
> > require a common basis for comparison.  I would be safe in assuming 
> > that not
> > everyone here is analyzing this question based on a common frame of
> > reference, in fact I bet we all have slightly different concepts of 
> > who or
> > what makes a better programmer.
> >
> > Therefore, the first question to ask must instead be: "What does it 
> > mean to
> > be a good programmer?" or even: "What is a good programmer."  For 
> > argument's
> > sake, as part of our answer to that question we say that 
> one trait of 
> > a good
> > programmer is thorough knowledge (or perhaps memorization) of a 
> > syntax.  If
> > that is true, then someone who uses a text editor is more 
> likely to be
> > considered a better programmer.
> >
> > However, it can be argued that syntax memorization is not so 
> > all-important.
> > For example, there are many excellent writers and thinkers 
> who cannot 
> > spell
> > worth a dime, yet they work with words all day long.  As such, the
> > programmer who uses an IDE may well be a "better" programmer in the 
> > sense
> > that A) the IDE supplements their knowledge of the syntax and B) 
> > separates
> > the programmer from a requirement to memorize syntax and instead 
> > allows them
> > to focus on what they're supposed to be doing: engineering software 
> > through
> > solid design principles, etc.
> >
> > Ultimately, I think the answer is completely subjective and depends 
> > wholly
> > on what one means by "better" programmer. Certainly someone 
> who lives 
> > in an
> > IDE cannot jump into Textpad and be expected to be nearly as 
> > productive, but
> > that does not necessarily diminish their core aptitude as a
> programmer!
> >
> > All that being said, if you don't use Textpad you're a n00b! =)
> >
> > -Chris
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:Simon.Chappell@landsend.com]
> > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 4:58 PM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
> >
> >
> > No. I very specifically said that the better programmers 
> CAN use text
> > editors and command-line tools. This does not mean that 
> they have to, 
> > only
> > that they COULD use them if they choose to. I now use the 
> Eclipse IDE 
> > for
> > alot of my personal programming because it is like a text 
> editor that 
> > wants
> > to be helpful. I like the wrappers that it gives me for the 
> compiles 
> > and
> > junit tests, but that it keeps out of the way for the 
> actual editing 
> > if I
> > don't invoke any of the "helpful" intelli-wotsits.
> >
> > Simon
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Chen, Gin [mailto:Gin.Chen@NielsenMedia.com]
> >> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 3:49 PM
> >> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> >> Subject: RE: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
> >>
> >>
> >> I think your confusing personal perference with programming skill.
> >> Thats like saying that Ted drink Sprite when most of the
> >> better programmers
> >> drinks Mountain Dew.
> >> -Tim
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:Simon.Chappell@landsend.com]
> >> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 4:38 PM
> >> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> >> Subject: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
> >>
> >>
> >> Actually, my primary point was text editor usage and
> >> programmer ability.
> >>
> >> It is my personal observation that the better programmers use
> >> text editors.
> >> (vi or emacs or jedit or vim ... I don't care ... that's not
> >> the argument
> >> here). I'm not quite saying that IDEs are bad, although 
> I'm certainly
> >> tempted to say that some days, but programmers who CAN program
> >> with text
> >> editors and command-line tools are orders of magnitude better
> >> than those who
> >> can't. You are more than welcome to tell me that you believe
> >> this is not so,
> >> but I have observed it enough that, to me, it is a truism.
> >>
> >> Simon
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: David Graham [mailto:dgraham1980@hotmail.com]
> >>> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 2:56 PM
> >>> To: struts-user@jakarta.apache.org
> >>> Subject: RE: [OT]: What is vim?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> VIM (vi) beats the hell out of EMACS, unless you are a LISP
> >>>>> weenie with a
> >>>>> masochistic bent.  And any non-dot-completion editor refines
> >>>>> your sense of
> >>>>> the API because it forces you to RTFM.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mark
> >>>
> >>> I use an ide and am referencing javadoc all the time anyways.
> >>> I don't see
> >>> any correlation between ide use and api ignorance.
> >>>
> >>> David
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _________________________________________________________________
> >>> Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> >>> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>
> >> 
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> >>
> >
> > 
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