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From "John Espey" <jes...@tallan.com>
Subject RE: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
Date Mon, 03 Mar 2003 23:01:47 GMT
Java Certified?  That proves it conclusively then.  What was I thinking?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:mark_galbreath@qat.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 4:49 PM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
>
>
> Well, you are full of shyte.  Okay?
>
> Mark (been a master carpenter and Java certified)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Espey [mailto:jespey@tallan.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 5:40 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
>
>
> I disagree STRONGLY with the statement that a programmer who uses a text
> editor learns the language better.  This is like saying a construction
> worker cannot be a good carpenter unless he builds a house from the ground
> up with a hammer and a standard screwdriver.  Just because I look
> at a black
> and white screen and am forced to type everything (every setter, every
> getter, every exception), and I have to add debug log statements anywhere
> that I want visibility into the code doesn't mean I will magically
> understand the code any better than if I use a modern tool to help me with
> some of these more menial tasks that are by no means essential to
> understanding what a piece of code is doing.
>   (I'll caveat this by saying that I think that a VIM or EMACS
> user will be
> able to manipulate text faster, no argument there.)
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:gourav.pani@brightpoint.com]
> > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 3:49 PM
> > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> > Subject: RE: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
> >
> >
> > i agree with simon to a certain degree.  personally, i got a lot
> > better understanding of programming when i was forced into an
> > environment where i had to use vi and command line for development.
> > eventually we switched to a more organized environment with jEdit as
> > the IDE.  i will admit that using the IDE has probably increased my
> > productivity.  but i definitely feel that
> > i have a better understanding of how things interract because i
> > have worked
> > in a "bare-bone" environment.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: apachep2 [mailto:apachep2@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 4:43 PM
> > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> > Subject: RE: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
> >
> >
> > IDE is what we usually called productivity tool, text editor is not.
> > There is nothing to do with a developer's skill.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:Simon.Chappell@landsend.com]
> > Sent: March 3, 2003 4:38 PM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: [OT] Text editor usage (was RE: [OT]: What is vim?)
> >
> > Actually, my primary point was text editor usage and programmer
> > ability.
> >
> > It is my personal observation that the better programmers use text
> > editors. (vi or emacs or jedit or vim ... I don't care ... that's not
> > the argument here). I'm not quite saying that IDEs are bad, although
> > I'm certainly tempted to say that some days, but programmers who CAN
> > program with text editors and command-line tools are orders of
> > magnitude better than those who can't. You are more than welcome to
> > tell me that you believe this is not so, but I have observed it enough
> > that, to me, it is a truism.
> >
> > Simon
> >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: David Graham [mailto:dgraham1980@hotmail.com]
> > >Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 2:56 PM
> > >To: struts-user@jakarta.apache.org
> > >Subject: RE: [OT]: What is vim?
> > >
> > >
> > >> >
> > >> >VIM (vi) beats the hell out of EMACS, unless you are a LISP weenie
> > >> >with a masochistic bent.  And any non-dot-completion editor
> > >> >refines your sense of
> > >> >the API because it forces you to RTFM.
> > >> >
> > >> >Mark
> > >
> > >I use an ide and am referencing javadoc all the time anyways. I don't
> > >see any correlation between ide use and api ignorance.
> > >
> > >David
> > >
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
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> > >
> > >---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >
> >
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