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From ian_d_stew...@bankone.com
Subject RE: [OT] MVC / Model 2 for Microsoft ???
Date Fri, 13 Jun 2003 21:19:19 GMT


The major selling point for me was the separation of the business logic
from both the presentation and data layers, along with the extremely
flexible configuration, via struts-config.xml.

This allows me to have my Struts guru (myself for the time being)
concentrate on the ActionForms, Actions, etc. while my web services guy (or
LDAP guy or Database guy) concentrates on the backend, and my web designer
(with negligible Java experience) can work his magic with the JSP, all more
or less concurrently, giving us a time to market 2-3 times faster than the
Microsofties.

The fact that I can work at my Linux workstation while my web designer does
his thing in Windows is pretty nice too... ;)


Ian

Ian D. Stewart
Open Systems Engineer II
Enterprise Midrange - Bank One Infrastructure & Operations
ian_d_stewart@bankone.com
(614) 213-6100




"Giampiero De Ciantis" <gdeciant@aci.on.ca> on 06/13/2003 03:29:56 PM

Please respond to "Struts Users Mailing List"
      <struts-user@jakarta.apache.org>

To:   "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <struts-user@jakarta.apache.org>
cc:

Subject:  RE: [OT] MVC / Model 2 for Microsoft ???



I don't think that the current ASP .NET model is too far off of the MVC
path. Mostly I think that MVC isn't enforced, but the foundation is
inherently there.

If I had to do a mapping from struts to ASP .NET I would put things like
this:

.jsp --> .aspx
ActionForm --> Code behind page of .aspx
Action --> Code behind page of .aspx
Model --> any .NET classes or Com objects that your Code behind page calls.

Now, I now this isn't nearly as strict a decoupling as Struts makes, but
(some of) the principles are still there.

What can be seen as both an up-side and down-side about this is that an
.aspx page is automatically paired with the code that can do the validation
as well as the Actions that will be taken when you submit the form.
Basically, everything that is declarative in Struts is programmatic in ASP
.NET. I am sure we all have heard the pros/cons of both of those
techniques.

I like using ASP .NET for my personal stuff because I can roll out my code
really quickly. But I think it would be hard to use it in an enterprise
environment because it tends to make me write sloppy code.

Struts is the opposite. Too much architecture for personal web-site stuff
(which is becoming less of an issue as the versions roll on), but great for
enterprise apps.

-Gp




-----Original Message-----
From: David Graham [mailto:dgraham1980@hotmail.com]
Sent: June 13, 2003 10:58 AM
To: struts-user@jakarta.apache.org
Subject: Re: [OT] MVC / Model 2 for Microsoft ???

>But this makes complete sense, in a sick way.  In a MS environment,
>portability probably isn't as big a concern,

It's no concern at all because you have nothing to port to.

>and while there are certainly other reasons to use MVC, it strikes me that
>the biggest is to maintain abstractions between the various layers.
>
>If you're a MS shop, you probably have SQL server, ASP and IIS -- and MS
>has little interest in making it easy to change this.  So why spend time
>building up a MVC framework if you know that you're pretty much married to
>certain technologies?

I don't see any connection between MVC and vendor lock in.  Even if you
were

an MS shop you still need layers to make the app. maintainable.

David

>
>No thanks.
>
>
>
>Erik
>
>
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