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From Sandeep Takhar <sandeep_tak...@yahoo.com>
Subject RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container?
Date Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:25:15 GMT
I'm guessing you already have code to solve these
problems...

Another advantage is that you can hire a struts
coder/expert...

There is miles of readable framework code that is
easily extendable and built (from my point of view) by
coders better than myself.

Something else to keep in mind.
sandeep
--- Ranko Bijelonic <rbijelonic@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes Struts does definitely solve many problems and
> make it easier.  But is
> seems that it solves a lot of problems that are
> already solved.  I'm looking
> for the reasons why this would not be the case. 
> Thanks for the help,
> 
> ranko
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sandeep Takhar
> [mailto:sandeep_takhar@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 11:21 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of
> a servlet
> container?
> 
> 
> I guess the main difference between what you mention
> and struts is that you can use this stuff right away
> for the app you want to build without modification.
> 
> As long as you understand the concepts you can apply
> them.  Similar to how you understand a
> servlet/filter
> spec.  Now you have common problems solved.
> 
> You don't have to code them or copy and paste from
> somewhere.
> 
> You also have the ability to auto-populate to lists
> which is pretty neat.
> 
> sandeep
> --- Ranko Bijelonic <rbijelonic@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > there's a lot of stuff it gives you out of the
> > box.
> >
> > > 1. solid code
> > so does the container i guess.
> >
> > >2. validation framework
> > This is one of those changes that could be added
> by
> > way of utility classes.
> > Have that Filter that autopopulates, check for
> > correct types like Struts.
> >
> > >3. tile framework
> > You can use it without Struts
> >
> > > 4. auto-population framework
> > It should be easy to add a Filter that
> autopopulates
> > a configured form (not
> > every time but as a standard).
> >
> > > 5. role based actions
> > I'm not sure what this is.
> >
> > >6. xml configuration of all the links or actions
> of
> > your application
> > So does web.xml i guess.
> >
> > >7. best practices framework bundling
> (scaffolding)
> > complete with examples (many years of experience
> > went
> > into this one).
> > Same thing as above.  There are tutorials,
> examples,
> > etc...
> >
> >
> > > 8. ease of use
> > If you think of a Servlet as an Action its kind of
> > as easy.  Except for some
> > repetative tasks that I would include to complete
> > the servlet spec (rather
> > than rewrite some of the container functionality
> to
> > add those utils).
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rajendra.x.yadav@verizon.com
> > [mailto:rajendra.x.yadav@verizon.com]
> > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 8:42 AM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: Struts MVC framework similar to that
> of
> > a servlet
> > container?
> >
> >
> >
> > Sandeep,
> > You mentioned role based actions in your list...
> > which has caught my eye.
> > Can you please elaborate on this ? Or point me to
> > some documentation ?
> >
> > thanks
> > -raj
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >                       "Sandeep Takhar"
> >                       <sandeep_takhar@y        To:
> >     "Struts Users
> > Mailing List" <struts-user@jakarta.apache.org>
> >                       ahoo.com>                cc:
> >
> > Subject:  Re: Struts MVC
> > framework similar to that of a servlet container?
> >                       21/07/2003 06:08
> >                       PM
> >                       Please respond to
> >                       "Struts Users
> >                       Mailing List"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > there's a lot of stuff it gives you out of the
> box.
> >
> > 1. solid code
> > 2. validation framework
> > 3. tile framework
> > 4. auto-population framework
> > 5. role based actions
> > 6. xml configuration of all the links or actions
> of
> > your application
> > 7. best practices framework bundling (scaffolding)
> > complete with examples (many years of experience
> > went
> > into this one).
> > 8. ease of use
> >
> > I am missing about twice as many things from this
> > list
> > I am sure...
> >
> > the servlet container is sun's way of making sure
> > that
> > what you build is timeless (and works on their
> > servers...)
> >
> > Struts solves common problems across every typical
> > application.  The servlet container does not solve
> > these typical problems.  Struts is really a
> > pattern...
> >
> > sandeep
> > --- Ranko Bijelonic <rbijelonic@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi.  I've been using Struts for a long time, and
> > > I've been very happy with
> > > the framework.  However, a recent discussion on
> > > Sun's Java forums has left
> > > me wondering if Struts is necessary.  It seems
> > that
> > > the servlet container
> > > itself provides an MVC framework very similar to
> > > that of Struts.  All that
> > > is missing is some utilities and
> standardization.
> > I
> > > was wondering if there
> > > is a flaw in my logic below, and if anyone had
> any
> > > comments.
> > >
> > >
> > > In comparing these two MVC frameworks, the
> servlet
> > > container would be the
> > > equivalent of the ActionServlet.  They both read
> > > their configuration files,
> > > examine the incoming URL, and then forward the
> > > request to the configured
> > > handler.  In the case of the servlet container
> the
> > > handlers are Servlet
> > > classes, and in the case of Struts its the
> Action
> > > classes.  Both the
> > > container and the ActionServlet will create an
> > > instance of their handler
> > > when its requested the first time. The Servlet's
> > > service method and the
> > > Action's execute method will call some domain
> > logic
> > > and then select a view
> > > to display to the user.  The Servlet can use
> > > RequestDispatchers to
> > > encapsulate information about the view, and the
> > > Action will use an
> > > ActionForward.  Doesn't this sound very similar?
> > >
> > > It seems like we are adding a lot of complexity
> on
> > > top of the servlet spec
> > > in order to get some common tasks done for us.
> > But
> > > that could probably be
> > > better done by the servlet container itself. 
> For
> > > example, Struts
> > > automatically populates the form class the
> > developer
> > > specifies for a
> > > particular Action.  But Sun could provide a
> > standard
> > > Filter implementation
> > > which does the same thing.  You can declare
> > handlers
> > > for your exceptions in
> > > the Struts configuration file, but you can also
> do
> > > it in the web.xml.  If
> > > the functionality there is not quite the same,
> Sun
> > > can add a little to the
> > > spec and we would get it.
> > >
> > > My question is, is an application built in
> Struts
> > > really that much more
> > > maintainable than one built with servlets?  Or
> if
> > > some common utilities
> > > provided by the Struts container were provided
> by
> > > the servlet container,
> > > would there be much difference?  It seems that
> > would
> > > even be simpler.  Or
> > > not?
> > >
> > > ranko
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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