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From Mike Duffy <mduffy_li...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: [OT] JSF Interface Design - Is it Truly Limited?
Date Tue, 15 Nov 2005 07:33:19 GMT
Thx Craig.

---
In JSF 1.0/1.1 it is pretty much OK, but there are interoperability issues
trying to put <div> elements inside another JSF component. Most of those
issues have been dealt with in JSF 1.2. However, even there you're *much*
better off designing components that render the <div> elements for you, so
you don't have to deal with all the complexity.
---

What if your <div> tags are simply being used for the style and layout of labels and
fields within
a form or for the formatting and display of textual information?  There are cases where it's
just
a one time deal for a specific app and it is not a custom component.  Is it good practice
to use
<div> tags in that instance?

Mike


--- Craig McClanahan <craigmcc@apache.org> wrote:

> On 11/14/05, Mike Duffy <mduffy_lists@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > There is a difference between specifying CSS attributes and creating a
> > liquid CSS design. The
> > later involves a complete separation of style and content where a web page
> > or JSP becomes a series
> > of <div> tags that flow; a single style sheet can be used to change the
> > look and feel of the
> > entire application. In a liquid CSS design, tables are only used for
> > displaying tabular data.
> >
> > In the "old days", complex web interfaces were based on an elaborate
> > layout of tables, nested
> > tables and nested tables within nested tables. In liquid CSS design, the
> > creation of complex web
> > interfaces is much simpler and far more elegant. If you look at a page
> > created with nested tables
> > and another created with liquid CSS design there is a definite aesthetic
> > difference. Also,
> > because <div>s are easily manipulated, rich interfaces based on AJAX are
> > much easier to create
> > using <div> tags.
> >
> > In JSF, if the layout is restricted to panel grids and panel groups, the
> > design will be table
> > based. In theory, the advantage of this approach is that multiple
> > renderers (HTML, Swing, etc.)
> > can make the application functional in different contexts.
> 
> 
> Not true. You are free to create JSF components that output <div> tags with
> appropriate style class names, rather than using things like panel group.
> Indeed, a library of components organized around this metaphor would likely
> be quite popular.
> 
> Don't presume anything about the power of JSF from the limitations of the
> standard components. They are basically there so you can write "Hello,
> World" apps without having to write a JSF component first. Instead, the
> promise is that you can enable different styles of component development
> (including your "liquid CSS" approach) on top of a standard API that allows
> us all to share our components with each other. (And a similar "liquid
> JavaScript" approach might offer an even more flexible way to allow
> customization of dynamically rendered HTML without modifying the source
> pages at all.)
> 
> In a JSF page, the <f:view> tag can contain <div> and other HTML tags. So
in
> > theory, you could
> > have a JSF application that encompasses liquid CSS design. I'd like to ask
> > a question of the JSF
> > experts who monitor this list: Is it considered "bad form" to use <div>
> > tags within the <f:view>
> > tag?
> 
> 
> In JSF 1.0/1.1 it is pretty much OK, but there are interoperability issues
> trying to put <div> elements inside another JSF component. Most of those
> issues have been dealt with in JSF 1.2. However, even there you're *much*
> better off designing components that render the <div> elements for you, so
> you don't have to deal with all the complexity.
> 
> Like many of the subscribers to this list, I have been struggling with the
> > decision of whether or
> > not to make the jump to JSF. After reading the Geary/Hortstmann book and
> > many articles
> > (http://www.jamesholmes.com/JavaServerFaces/), and reviewing the work
> > being done on Shale
> > (http://struts.apache.org/shale/), I think it is time. The promise of JSF
> > is real.
> 
> 
> Yep :-).
> 
> As someone who started out mapping form fields by using CGI and Perl, I am
> > very thankful for the
> > contributions made by those who created and maintained Struts. I sincerely
> > hope that Struts can
> > find a good home in the country where it can run and play in the warm
> > sunshine.
> >
> > Mike
> 
> 
> Craig
> 



	
		
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