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From "Alexandre Poitras" <alexandre.poit...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Why did Struts development stagnate?
Date Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:07:50 GMT
Stability : Relatively unchanging, permanent; firmly fixed or established,

Of course, it usually only refers to the framework API. It doesn't
have anything to do with improvements or not, changing is changing for
the best or the worst.

"There is nothing incompatible between being -->stable<-- and being
innovative and
-->changing<--" is totally contradictory according to your favorite dictionary.



On 3/30/06, Dakota Jack <dakota.jack@gmail.com> wrote:
> Again, Alexandre, how are these contradictory?  Oh, LOL, I see what you are
> thinking, if I can guess.  You think that code improvement and migration are
> unstable.  Unstable is when you cannot count on a product for the long run.
> This means stability embraces change and improvement, keeping up with the
> Jones.  Look at the big picture.
>
> Stability is important.  That does not mean you don't improve.  There is
> nothing incompatible between being stable and being innovative and
> changing.  In fact, if a code base does not keep up, it is unstable.  A code
> base is not stable if you cannot count on it for the future.
>
> On 3/30/06, Alexandre Poitras <alexandre.poitras@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Yesterday :
> > "The stability of a platform like Struts is a big deal"
> > Today :
> > "Backward compatibility is never a reason to trash a product.  You go
> > through a process of deprecation."
> >
> > On 3/30/06, Dakota Jack <dakota.jack@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I have no idea, Alexandre, why you think this is a contradiction.  Could
> > you
> > > please point that out?
> > >
> > > On 3/30/06, Alexandre Poitras <alexandre.poitras@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > You lack memory Dakota, here's what you just wrote yesterday :
> > > >
> > > > "The hullabaloo, Larry, is about the stability of the platform with a
> > > > bunch
> > > > of committers who don't appear to be up to the job and who are not
> > willing
> > > > to look at what went wrong.  The stability of a platform like Struts
> > is a
> > > > big deal.  This is a time to decide to go with or to get off the
> > Struts
> > > > wagon.  How the committers respond has a lot to do with this."
> > > >
> > > > You just contradicted yourself... But you are so superior to us mere
> > > > mortals that I am probably wrong again.
> > > >
> > > > > > On 3/30/06, Dakota Jack <dakota.jack@gmail.com> wrote:
 You
> > > > > > toadies to the process are the ones that always start this
> > crap.  The
> > > > truth
> > > > > > is that you don't know shit.  If you did, you would be all over
> > this
> > > > > > question.  Backward compatibility is never a reason to trash
a
> > > > product.  You
> > > > > > go through a process of deprecation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 3/30/06, Alexandre Poitras <alexandre.poitras@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Don't bother about him Bart. I said it and I will say it
again,
> > he
> > > > is
> > > > > > > a troll. I tried to have a constructive discussion with
him
> > several
> > > > > > > times. It always ends up in personal attacks (go read some
books
> > and
> > > > > > > come back...) but he is the one never backing up his claims.
I
> > am
> > > > all
> > > > > > > for freedom of speech and CONSRUCTIVE CRITICISM but I think
> > people
> > > > > > > have been REALLY tolerant with him. I can't count how many
times
> > he
> > > > > > > bashed Craig freely or any other commiters. It sounds like
> > jalousy
> > > > to
> > > > > > > me. Dakota, this list is owned by Apache and you are a
guess
> > here.
> > > > It
> > > > > > > is not an absolute right.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Honestly, I begin to think Shale should move to another
place
> > > > because
> > > > > > > the amount of noise on this list is terrible. I don't write
a
> > lot on
> > > > > > > this list but I do read it a lot and this noise is getting
> > really
> > > > out
> > > > > > > of control. Thank to 2 guys who have decided Apache doesn't
fit
> > > > their
> > > > > > > point of view and therefore anybody who don't think the
same
> > > > way  are
> > > > > > > wrong . Here's a clue : you can take the code, evolve it
and
> > start
> > > > > > > your own community then quite BUGGING US with your childish
> > fights
> > > > > > > since you will be so successful.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > By the way, for those who may believe those guys, Struts
1.xdidn't
> > > > > > > not evolve as fast as WebWork for one reason : API Backward
> > > > > > > compatibilit, something very important to frameworks. This
is
> > one of
> > > > > > > the reason this community is so huge. Is it that hard to
> > understand
> > > > ?
> > > > > > > For instance, it has been well known since a long time
that
> > sending
> > > > an
> > > > > > > HttpServletRequest's instance to actions was a bad idea
and a
> > > > neutral
> > > > > > > context object should have been used instead but it hasn't
been
> > > > > > > changed to keep the API consistant. Hence the need for
a version
> > 2.0
> > > > .
> > > > > > > WebWork technically already gots it right but always lacked
> > (from
> > > > what
> > > > > > > I heard) a big user community, something Struts has always
> > enjoyed
> > > > > > > because of its commitment to backward compatibility. So
both
> > > > > > > frameworks win in this merge especially given the strong
> > competition
> > > > > > > coming from components-oriented frameworks. Technical excellence
> > is
> > > > > > > not the only success factor. Only idealists think this
way.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 3/30/06, Bart Busschots <bart@cs.nuim.ie> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Dakota Jack wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Dion, you are obviously really green.  Please
read a bit and
> > then
> > > > come
> > > > > > > > >back.  Do you have any idea about architecture
and design and
> > > > testing
> > > > > > > > >issues?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This is an example of the kind of post this list could
do
> > without.
> > > > The
> > > > > > > > above post basically boils down to:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "you disagree with me so you must be uneducated, go
read up
> > some
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > then come talk with the big boys"
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm sorry but that is just insulting and most un-helpful.
> > Jack,
> > > > please
> > > > > > > > explain your point of view so us mere
> > > > > > > > mortals can actually learn something rather than being
all
> > smug
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > superior on people who dissagree with
> > > > > > > > you.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bart.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Alexandre Poitras
> > > > > > > Québec, Canada
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > "You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float
on its
> > > > back."
> > > > > > ~Dakota Jack~
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Alexandre Poitras
> > > > > Québec, Canada
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Alexandre Poitras
> > > > Québec, Canada
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > "You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its
> > back."
> > > ~Dakota Jack~
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Alexandre Poitras
> > Québec, Canada
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> "You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back."
> ~Dakota Jack~
>
>


--
Alexandre Poitras
Québec, Canada

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